Yari Ostovani
Audio of the Entire Interview
Interview Transcript
Part 01
Childhood and early schooling in Iran
I was born in Tehran in 1962
My father was born in Rasht,
his family moved to Tehran when he was 4 years old
my maternal grandparents were born in Georgia
they moved to Turkey at the time of the Russian revolution
and after a few years moved to Iran and became Iranian citizens
which means they experienced two revolutions
in their lifetime
we are three brothers, I am the middle one
the atmosphere of our house was always
a cultural and artistic one
my father worked at the Office of Human Resources and
Administration but in his youth was very much involved
in the arts; from writing poetry – which we found out about later,
he was a close friend of Sarkis Djanbazian and
performed in his folkloric dance group
he sang classical Persian music
as I said this was all before our time, by then he was older
we heard all these stories from friends and relatives
he was friends with many cultural figures,
for example Rahi Mo’ayyeri and Banan, among others,
were close friends of him at the time
so the atmosphere of the house was a cultural one in general
even though by then he was busy with his government job
the sound of classical Persian music always permeated our house
he had a Reel-to-Reel tape player …
… on which the first piece of Iranian classical music
was The Caravan by Banan
he also had a good collection of Western classical music,
the first classical piece that I got to know on that machine
was Tchaikovsky’s Piano Concerto No. 1 I think
I very well remember those tapes and what they looked and felt like
at any rate, it was a cultural atmosphere but
like many other parents they did not encourage me to
pursue an artistic path
they were worried about their children’s future and
financial stability and things of that nature
what a lot of us hear is “ok, now that you have artistic talent,
go into architecture, something that would pay the bills”
in my adolescence I was very much interested in poetry,
in particular contemporary poetry
then one of my friends who was taking a painting class
encouraged me to try painting and thought that it would
suit my sensibility. And so I started to pursue it
at first I started with the Do-It-Yourself painting instruction books
and then started going to galleries,
the newly opened Tehran Museum of Contemporary Art
had become my favorite hangout,
I spent a lot of time at the museum and it’s library
the first formal art class that I took was one of the
extension classes at Tehran University
— What year?
… or 1977,
one or two years before the revolution
my first art teacher was Arabali Sherveh
that class had a a deep impact on me,
in a way it determined the direction of my life
after that, I left for the US at the age of 16,
after having finished my second year of high school,
not with the intention of immigrating but like
many back then to go there, study and return
and it was not because of the revolution either,
it just happened to coincide with that time
my brother had already been studying in the US for
I left and then things turned out in a way that I got stuck there
I finished the last two years of high school there, the first
year I was in Texas and the second year in Reno in
Northern Nevada where I later entered the university
that’s when I started pursuing painting seriously
memories … they are sometimes very nebulous
perhaps the first time that our father took us to
the Museum of Ancient Iran is one of my strongest early memories
early memories …
our old house in Taba alley, off Bahar street
– ah, we lived there too
Really?
– yes
number 24 if I am not mistaken
across the alley was Mamad Agha’s grocery store …
– yes
and Akbar Agha’s greengrocery …
– yes
and Akbar Agha’s greengrocery …
– yes, we lived there for many years
– after the revolution we built an apartment building there.
– next door was Kimiaii’s house
I did not know that
our old house was torn down and an apartment building
went up in its place, the first time I came back to Iran after 21 years
— Taba alley?
yes, Taba alley
— maybe we bought it from you
that is not unlikely,
very small world sometimes!
and playing soccer in the streets …
I should also mention that I had Nasser Hejjazi’s poster
on my wall and I wanted to be the national team’s
goalkeeper when I grew up
of course this contradiction always bothered me since
I was a Persepolis fan and he played for Taaj
but …
many things came together,
for example the good cultural programs which were on TV
at the time, Channel 2 had the program Ways of Seeing by
Aydin Aghdashloo which made a great impression on me
I think he had another program on Art History as well
or maybe it was just that one
and then there was the Italian miniseries on the life of
Leonardo da Vinci which was dubbed in Persian,
these all had a profound effect on me
my father was elementary school friends
with Abbas Katouzian
when I had become interested in painting and drawing,
he took me to see Katouzian to give me pointers as how
to get started, about the basics of drawing, even where
to go to buy the right kind of paper, how to make a
drawing board myself etc.
so in some ways my father did encourage me, but well,
he did worry about our future, like all parents do
the world of childhood that you mentioned, yes,
it is with me but I don’t know quite how,
I can’t really put my finger on it
I have always …
moved in a poetic atmosphere in a way
in my adolescence I loved to walk in Tehran
and I walked for miles and miles, zigzagging through
the streets and alleyways for hours
I visited bookstores and music shops along the way, and
I usually spent my allowance on books and some flowers
for my mother
going back to something else that connects with that
in a way; I never studied when I was a student
I “non-studied” all subjects equally
but my report card was very interesting;
everything from A+ to F
the subjects that I liked, I paid attention to in class
and would learn them well but the subjects that did
not interest me such as math …
– you mean you learned the courses that you had
to memorize better
the subjects were the most important thing to me;
Social Studies, History, English
it seems that I have always had a talent
for learning languages
and …
what else …
maybe the subjects which were not technical,
although I was even good in TechShop classes
my grades were typically low in the subjects
that did not stir my interest
had to be one that I would thoroughly commit myself to,
maybe that was a sign that the path I were to choose
anything else would just be a distraction
Part 02
Studying abroad and gravitating towards painting
— how come you left before having finished high school in Iran?
you did mention that your brother was already there,
was that reason enough?
well .. he had already received his high school diploma
before leaving but well, I was already being drawn into
the events taking shape in the country and what was
happening to my country mattered to me greatly,
I wanted to play a role in it; I took part in a couple of large
demonstrations, I think that’s why my father expedited
sending me abroad
I was 16 years old and could not really object
and say that I wanted to stay
that is the main reason I think
since I was under 18 years of age, I needed a legal guardian
in the US, my cousin took that responsibility
that’s an interesting story in itself
— were you in Houston?
no, let me tell you, it was quite interesting
do you remember the TV series “Little House on the Prairie”?
I went to a place very much like that
except that instead of horse carriages they had pickup trucks
my cousin was an engineer and worked in the city which
was a 15 minute drive from where we lived, he had bought
a farm in the country and had plans to cultivate it
I lived on that farm
the high school there had 200 students, that included
junior high, the population of the whole village was 500
what was very interesting for me was that
I was a novelty for everyone at the school
since I was not only the only Iranian who had ever gone to
that school but the only foreigner who had ever gone there
so it was a very interesting period
but I was fortunate that I was not there during the
hostage crisis since the Texans get to be a little belligerent
at times
With me they were very kind and inviting
[
Later I joined my brother in Reno, Nevada
I finished high school and entered the university there
after my father passed away in Iran,
I left the university for a while and there was a gap
in my studies
at the university, at first I studied Architecture
even though I was taking painting courses as well
but after the passing of my father I felt that now I can
go ahead and pursue my real passion
that’s when I committed myself to painting
and got my bachelor’s degree there
— at which university?
University of Nevada in Reno
they say it that way because there is also
a University of Nevada in Las Vegas
then for my MFA I went to the San Francisco Art Institute,
again with painting as my focus and I graduated in 1995
we did not have a particular thesis exhibition,
we had to present an exhibition of a cohesive body of work
at the end of the year, as the graduation exhibition
the pieces from that period were transitional works for me
since the figures were still present but they had turned
into silouhettes, but not like shadows, the silouhettes were
filled with bright and strong colors
I was using powder pigments,
the backgrounds were done very freely with oils
and these silouhettes were very precisely delineated,
using oil medium – like glue – that I would
sprinkle powder pigments over
the coarse texture of the pigment would create a very
strong contrast against the background
That’s when the backgrounds started to attract me more and pull me in
one thing that I realized is that after graduating,
I saw that my friends experienced that too,
a couple of years have to go by for you to get rid of what
you have learned at the university
if you are to gradually get closer to finding your own voice
The work that come out of that period is somewhat
confusing even, mannerist in a way, neither here nor there
the thing is to throw away what you have learned and
what detritus remains becomes something useful
it becomes the foundation of the future work in the
direction of finding your own voice and your own
visual language, if you are successful
for me, painting gradually became a need,
something that is bubbling inside me and
I can not do anything other than this
and as I went further and further ahead,
this became clearer and clearer and proven to me
I have been working for about 30 years,
I have had numerous exhibitions in different places
in the world, mostly in the US where I live but in the past
… and …
it is that, when I am not painting, I feel out of sorts
I took care of myself financially,
there were student loans and I also worked,
either full-time or part-time, at many different jobs,
the type of jobs you do as a student
and afterwards, well, you know that it is not
always easy to make a living from painting
fortunately the age of internet and computers
helped me and many others in my situation out
I went into Computer Graphics and Web Design and
worked full-time as a designer for many years
and on top of that I maintained a studio and would
go and paint after work late into the night
And well, promoting your work and seeking out galleries
and other PR things like that are very time consuming
but well, I did all that since there was no there way
— talk about your experience of the university education
system you went through there, both BFA and MFA,
what did you learn there? or if you can, make a comparison
between the university system there and that of Iran’s
well I am not too familiar with the university system in Iran,
I do follow the art news and art happenings in Iran
to the extent that I can from afar,
but as far as the university system,
one of the differences that I have noticed is that
the teachers there encourage you to find your own voice,
I have noticed that many teachers here look to create
followers, let’s not say blind followers,
those who would follow the style and the path of the
teacher in a way
over there in the US when a student did this the teachers
would become irritated and would say : “why are you
copying me, you have to find your own voice”
in this way it was a very effective system
and different teachers would bring different
cultural and historical baggage with them
we had a teacher for instance who insisted on everything
being archival, everything had to be done in a certain way,
we were not to work on cardboard
in her classes we learned to make paint
and cook gesso in the style of the Renaissance
there is a technique that was used in the renaissance (Egg Tempera)
mixing egg yolk with pigments, we did that for a year
and the interesting thing was that after that teacher left,
another teacher took her place whose methodology was
completely the opposite of the other teacher
she would say: “work on whatever surface you want with
whatever material you want “ and I think the best works
that came out of our class were from that period,
where we left the rigidity of the former teacher behind
and were moving towards the freedom of the latter
but there was a good place in-between the two
where there were elements from both present
I had some excellent teachers and I had so so teachers as well
it really depended on the character of the teacher
but in general, the main thrust was to encourage you
to find your own voice
there were teachers who encouraged us to visit
galleries often, some emphasized the importance of
art history, some not
I think the combination of all these during my
university years led to something good
maybe if the emphasis was only on one those elements,
either this or that,
it would not have been as rich in the end
I have a teacher from those years who is now my friend
and my mentor, well now he is a friend. He calls me a
colleague, but I always tell him that as long as he is there
I am his student
whenever I get a chance to take part
in one of his workshops or classes, I do
it does not matter to me how much success I have had
or how evolved my work has become
I always go to his classes and I still learn from him
not everyone was diligent and hardworking at school
myself and a handful of us were there almost 24 hours a day
no, not everyone was hardworking
at any rate, we had critiques in class every two weeks
where we had to present our work and the work had to
be finished by then
but I always went beyond that, I loved to work
just as I never work for a show,
for example “I have a show in 2 months and have to finish
I like my work to be free of such external influences
there were 6 or 7 of us who worked through the night
after classes, we worked until dawn
there was a beat-up sofa in the ceramics department
and whoever got there sooner, around 4 or 5 in
the morning was set, otherwise you’d have to wait for
the library to open and find a corner to sleep there
and then get up and back to work
there was a very good and focused energy there
painting for me has become a need, I have to work
it is not like sitting around,
waiting for divine inspiration to descend
when I talk with younger painters I always emphasize this
that inspiration comes from work
Picasso, as well as many other painters have said that
Chuck Close, New York painter, said something very
interesting: “inspiration is for the beginners,
the rest of us just show up and work”
when you are working, these gears are lubricated
and you can dig deeper
I don’t believe in this 19th century notion of sitting around
and waiting for inspiration and ideas to come
even in the most difficult of times,
I try to go to the studio and work,
even if I am not happy with the results
see, when you try to let this river flow inside you,
one that may have even dried up a bit,
first it is gunk and sludge that will come out
and you have to allow that to come out
and not be frightened by the sight of this gunk and sludge,
since clear water is right behind it
if you become afraid and repulsed by that
then what is behind it will not have a chance to come out
so professional discipline is very important to me
and anything beyond that
comes out of that professional discipline
sometimes I used to skip painting classes
when I didn’t feel like working
and then one time after I was working on a piece for 3 hours,
and it just wasn’t working out
in anger and frustration I threw the paint brush at
the canvas and everything started falling into place
it gave me a great lesson
what I just told you,
you have to work under any condition
that last stroke that brought everything together
would not have been possible without those
there are no short cuts,
you just have to push ahead,
past the gunk and sludge that I mentioned
that’s where I learned that
for example my wife, she used to ask earlier,
“how was your day in the studio today?”
now she has learned,
I tell her “any day in the studio is a good day,
even if it everything goes badly.”
because if everything is going well, then wonderful!
if it is going badly it means that you are working
through something that you will resolve
either today, tomorrow, in 2 weeks or in 2 months
you will eventually get to the other side of it
if you have faith in your work,
if you give it the energy it requires
so even if it goes badly,
it is a good day
Part 03
Creative Periods
I started with drawing at first
and my first class was with Arabali Sherveh
which was an extension class at the
University of Tehran when I was still in high school
I continued with drawing in the US
and I started to paint in watercolor actually
my watercolors were more surrealistic,
in a way that when people saw them at first
they thought they were oil paintings
I mean they did not conform to the characteristics of watercolor
I meant to eventually move towards oil painting
and this transition was rather interesting for me because
it took me a while to learn to think in oil,
since thinking within the framework of watercolor is quite different
the role that the white of the paper plays,
which can of course also be present in oil painting,
but it is not the main characteristic of oil painting
and …
I truly fell in love with oil painting and I am in love with it now
I have not worked with acrylics much but I do
try to play around with it from time to time
but I really love oil painting;
the smell, the way it moves, the way it responds to
different kinds of oils and mediums that you mix it with
gives me a special pleasure
they (my watercolors) were figurative works,
my early oil paintings were also figurative
still somewhat surrealistic and influenced by de Chirico,
that kind of surrealism
very little by Dali but more by de Chirico,
that space was more appealing to me
the broken classical space
not even neo-Classical, but the broken Classical space
that de Chirico has in his work
slowly textures became more prominent in my work,
more and more colors and textures,
and then, that part of the work was much freer than the figures
and I gradually gravitated towards that
I saw that what was going on in the background
had become more interesting to me than the figures themselves
as if zooming into the background, I started slowly delving into
the backgrounds and a new world opened up to me
and …
this connected to something else that I mentioned earlier which has always had great importance for me;
music
in a way I see my work of the past 25 years
as a kind of pictorial music
not pictured music, mind you
but the same elements that are present in music
as far as rhythm, loudness and softness of colors,
coolness or warmness of colors, pitch, tone and alike,
you are working with those same elements
and I see a kind of …
music that has been visualized
and again, not music that has been translated to paint
and since then I have been going deeper and deeper into it
works which are created with many layers, built up over time,
layers which are broken up with turpentine or thinner
with the layers underneath showing through and then when they dry again with more layers,
sometime 70 or 80 layers on top of one another
the luminescence and the richness that you find in these works will not happen otherwise
When you see the pieces up close,
you’d realize how different they are from the small images
that you see of them on the internet, a lot of the details fall apart there
this has been the main trajectory of my work,
from drawing to watercolor
to oil and from figurative gradually to abstract
about the Conference of the Birds,
I was never after depicting any particular stories
but a general sense of the book
basically in any of the series that I have done
The Third Script or Fragments of Poetry and Silence,
they are not about any specific poems
I am suspended in a certain space which fits that subject
floating in that space of the story,
that space of the totality of the piece somehow connects to it
I have never sought to reflect the stories
or parts of the stories, in linear or narrative terms
A general impression,
this suspension in that space
takes the work in this direction
now,
I work on a number of series simultaneously,
and when I start working
I try to be thoroughly empty, to get myself out of the way
I don’t decide from before that this piece is going to be part of the Conference of the Birds series
when the piece is finished, or nearly finished it tells me where it wants to go
which of the series that I am working on it wants to join, or it can join
sometimes a new piece comes along that does not
connect to any of those series and I see that a new series wants to be born
I recently started a new series called Cantata which is in a way an homage to Bach
these pieces did not not fit in the existing series,
so a new series has began
these series are open ended
Conference of the Birds started about 25 years ago and is still continuing
and it’s fine, it can go as far as it wants to
it may reach a point where I would think that
what was needed to be said has been said
the end point of a series does not concern me
— where are the aesthetic and visual differences in the finished pieces that we see?
I hope that these differences show themselves in the feel of the paintings
otherwise some of the alphabets of the visual language that I use are common to many of these pieces
but the general feeling of a piece takes you in one direction or another
difficult to delineate a clear border between them, some of it has to do with my choices and taste
some of it has to do with, well,
for example the series called Verses,
which is actually difficult to translate into Persian since I like the double entendre that it has in English
— religious verses
it can be both a religious verse and a line of poetry
when you translate it into Persian, it becomes one or the other,
it doesn’t fit in the middle that’s why I like its double meaning in English
there are more script-like lines in these, while not being any specific script
I am alluding for example to the kind of scriptive marks
that Parviz Tanavoli used in his work which is not any particular script
but is in a way reminiscent of Persian and Arabic script
there is a scriptive or script like feel that is exploding
and scattering and falling apart or agglutinating, materializing
these aspects are stronger in these pieces, they come together in this way
the difference between Conference of the Birds and The Third Script is harder to define,
they may overlap here and there
it has to do with what is going on in my mind and
the feeling that I have which decides towards which series a piece wants to go
each has an aspect which is more prominent
now this prominent aspect maybe harder to see,
for me it is clearer since the piece comes out of my hands
in the Verses series, it is is somewhat clearer
there is another series called Peregrine (alien, foreign migratory)
what those of my generation,
who are in-between have experienced
in that series there are more splotches of stronger/harsher colors
so if you observe closely you’ll see that there are connections
but ultimately I decide which painting goes in which series
the recent pieces on Bach have very strong and bright textures,
you don’t find the misty atmospheric feel that the other pieces have in these
that becomes their common link and what connects them together
— where is Bach in all this?
I hope that I have brought him into the work
“Where is Bach in all this?”
Bach is here,
right next to Beethoven
and Mozart is right around here
the driving force behind something does not necessarily
have to end up as the translation of that force in the end
this is something that has pointed me in that direction,
the end result can be completely different
you know, when you look at Rhotko’s work,
where has the idea come from? what is Rhotko’s work in the end?
it awakens a strange sensation in you
and …
it doesn’t have to be anything in particular[
Bach is the departure point for this series,
the driving force behind this idea
I want these pieces to ultimately be in a family,
connect with each other in some way
if in the end, someone sees or doesn’t see Bach in these works
that’s a different story
it has been the point of departure
sometime even when sitting on a bus
an idea comes and I jot it down in my notebook “a series about this …”
or things which have been important to me
suddenly come forward after many years
there is another series called Koans
Koan in Japanese and in Zen refers to a paradoxical riddle
that has no answer but when you repeat the Koan over and over again,
at least that what the Zen masters say,
something becomes very clear to you
I realized that that fits the new series that was just starting
that’s how it happens, I don’t think and plan beforehand
that’s how a new series is born
well, you know, it is not like there are 25 series, there’s a limited number,
and I see that this piece does not really fit of of these series
and then I see which direction it wants to go in
then the word Koan come to my mind and I see that it fits,
it starts falling into place then
I let my subconscious take care of that,
I don’t plan the direction of the work ahead of time
see, my whole work process is this way
I mean, the work is entirely process based
everything has to form in front of my eyes and with my hands
when I see a piece finished in my mind’s eye,
or even see the next step clearly,
I lose interest
because in my mind, it would be a copy
it doesn’t matter if it is a copy from here
or from something that exists in the external world
and the same for titles and subjects, they just come to me
I don’t sit and tell myself “ ok, now I want to choose a subject”
— which period of your work do you prefer?
I go back to a question someone asked me once and my reply surprised myself too;
he asked me which amongst my works was my favorite?
I immediately replied “the one that I am working on now”
since I involve myself more with the creative process,
with the process of painting, rather than any one painting in particular,
it is really hard to answer since for me everything is about the moment, about the work itself
when a piece is finished it becomes a record of the journey traveled
they are like children who have grown up,
send a postcard now and then but have their own lives now
what is essential is this right here, which is coming to life
So … my favorite period …
my favorite period is always right in front of me
I have about 25 piece in my studio in California drying
I am looking forward to getting back in there and continue working on them
Part 04
From Concept to Completion
— there’s a white canvas in front of you. Paint and brushes are all ready laid out
you are ready to start, from the beginning when there’s a spark, when an idea comes
to you until you finish the piece and put down the brush,
how does this path unfold for you?
well there are no sparks, as I said I try to be as empty as possible when I go to the studio
in a very Zen like state,
moving myself out of the way of this energy that wants to come out
first of all I break the white of the canvas
breaking that fear of the white is the same thing that many
writers deal with when they freeze in front
of the blank/white paper, many painters as well
the way I work, I just need to get things moving
and I break that white with a brush stroke or anything at all
what comes next is a response to that first action
and the layers keep getting more and more complex
since the next thing that happens on the canvas is a
response to those previous actions and so on
that initial brush stroke can be completely obliterated in the process
but in a way it is always present since without it
you would not get to the present stage
as soon as it becomes clear to me in which direction the piece wants to go
I lose interest
and I intentionally push it in a different direction
because I have a problem with becoming comfortable
in one’s work and I see it as a danger for the artist, in any style
when you become comfortable,
that sharp and enquiring edge of your work becomes dull
and this remains a dialogue between different forms and textures
until something new appears in the piece, a synergy,
when you feel that the whole of the piece has gone beyond the sum of its parts
when that breath of life comes in
that’s when the piece, in my mind, starts moving in the right direction,
it is not done yet and has not fallen into place
up to that point it is just a dialogue between forms and shapes and stays there
for some styles that is enough
especially in the works of the modern period that’s what it was about;
a dialogue between forms, textures, a wash here …
a splotch of color there
this,
for the way I work, is not enough
it has to get to a point
where it would give me goose bumps and
that’s when that additional layer of sensation enters the piece
this whole idea of working with accidents and managing accidents is not a new thing,
it has been in music with John Cage, and even Bacon relied on accidents a lot,
even though he worked in a figurative framework
I sometimes even start a piece with colors that I normally don’t work with
colors that are even unpleasant for me and I tell myself “ok, now deal with it
you have to tame it now and make it work for you”,
you know
I try to create some challenges for myself here
for example of that harsh color that I have put on the canvas
only a tiny bit might remain or maybe the whole thing would be wiped away,
but its lucidity can still come through another layer
and make it richer or do something new with it
for instance if I use a strong fluorescent pink,
there may be no discernible trace of in the end
since it is not even a color that attracts me
of course every color has its place,
you do find strange colors in nature too but at the right proportions
I don’t usually work on one piece at a time,
I work on something like 20 pieces simultaneously
since in some places when you get stuck working on a piece,
another one over here opens up and I work on that
and then that one teaches me that what I am doing
on this painting can work well on this other one
there is a bouncing back and forth and they are in constant dialogue
it’s then that a piece is finished,
another one this close to being finished and you do something that pushes it further back
some pieces take a few days, some a few years
And …
I don’t give up on any piece
it may not yet be sitting well but I will eventually finish it
it keeps going back and forth until it falls into place
in this whole process of pushing and pulling, going back and forth,
it is actually the accumulation of these layers that helps it get there
an interesting comparison for example,
in a certain type of minimal music,
referring to Phillip Glass again,
certain motives keep repeating
but the rhythms could be slightly different
From these layers that aggregate on top of one another something new is heard
which in a way does not have an external entity, you don’t actually play it
it is the accumulation of these layers that give rise to it
many of these effects in my work are created in the same way,
that’s why they are unknown to me beforehand
when I first started working in this way it felt rather odd to me,
it had to have some framework
after a while I saw that there was a thread going through them all,
connecting them with one another
that’s not something I should worry about,
they all have a certain signature
and then it became clearer to me what I was after within this framework;
I am after a visual language
a visual language within which you can express poetry, stories, news headlines,
as opposed to a “style” where all the works are very much the same with little variations
my goal has been mostly to arrive at a comprehensive visual language so that
when you see these pieces, you see that they are different from one another
but you also see their connection to one another as well
here you have screamed, here you have whispered
– at what point do you consider a piece finished?
when it reaches a point where you feel that the whole of the piece
has gone beyond the sum of its parts,
all of a sudden it seems that a breath of life comes into the piece
it is hard to put your finger on it but when it happens you know it,
you feel it, you see it
it is as if you are connected to the piece with an
umbilical cord and at some point it cuts it off
in other words, anything that you would add to it at that point
would take the piece further away, would ruin it
another interesting experience that I learned a good lesson from was that
in this work process which I just explained, made it clearer to me,
I had done some pieces that I was not satisfied with and they were not finished
I really didn’t like them, I set them aside facing the wall
and I saw that not only they were finished but I like them a lot
I asked myself why
I realized that there somethings in these pieces which wanted
to reveal themselves to me that I was not yet ready to accept,
I was not there yet
What this taught me was not to edit myself while I am working
You want to make it pretty, pretty is the enemy of a lot of things
Since beauty is altogether a different matter than pretty
when you edit yourself as you work,
this editing comes from a knowledge that is based on experiences and
experiences are by nature limited since there is always more to experience,
there are other things to be experienced, things further ahead
this taught me to pull myself back more and more and allow things to come out,
this has helped my work a lot, it has enabled me to dig deeper
it made me wonder, why did I not like this pieces 6 months ago?
why do I like it so much now?
I had not touched the pieces since then, it was I who had changed
recently there have been pieces which I have finished in two sessions
and that was not easy for me to digest at first,
I usually use so many layers on top of one another, how can a pice finish so quickly?
but I realized that when it is done, it is done and I have to let it go
it took me a while to digest this that when it is done, it is done
so yes, there are pieces that are finished in 2 sessions
and others that take a couple of years
that’s how I approach it
I come across some young painters who say
“oh it was going so well but I ruined the painting last night”
I don’t see that as ruining the painting
if you look at the larger arc,
this arc is not even, there are peaks and valleys, 5 steps forward, 3 steps backwards
these are all steps in the evolution of the piece
so if I have done something today that I am happy with
and tomorrow it goes in a different direction
and then the next thing that I have done
is something that keeps just a bit of that blue
that I used yesterday which I did not like and it comes through
maybe the work you did they day before which you did not like
was just so that this bit of blue comes out of it
and that’s what really makes the work in a way
it is a different approach; complete faith in the piece,
that it will eventually find its way
time is an important element
not every piece is always successful, if you give it enough time, it will be
you just have to be willing to give it this time
there was a period when I did not paint for 4 months
I was in between studios, I think it was when we had moved to Germany
and I was looking for a studio
other than that I have always maintained a studio
from an apartment garage which was like a cave …
Anywhere, anywhere I can work
And of course you know the sizes of my paintings have to do with the size of my studio
When I have a large studio I work large and when I have a small studio I work small,
you adjust yourself
the main thing is for the work to get done
these external things come out internally
they go into my internal world and set certain things in motion
yes, it is not a direct response to that external impetus
by the way, I am not the only kind of artist nor is my art the only kind of art
and it is not that one person is supposed to say all that is to be said
there are artists who do that kind of art (political) in a very good way
this is what I do
and I don’t claim that it covers everything and it is not supposed to
Petroleum which you mentioned for example, does not even come into my work
maybe it has affected me indirectly and internally takes me in a certain direction
I don’t know what path it has taken and how it has affected me
I also abstain from analysis because for me it really goes back to the poetic outlook
and the last lines in Sohrab Sepehri’s poem The Footsteps of Water;
I really prefer to be “suspended in the wonder of the rose”
of course I too am affected by the news and what goes on in the world
I am not after reflecting that directly in my work
but,
after seeing the carnage and tragic events certain things might show up in the work,
some darker colors may become prominent
I don’t give it direction
it does affect me and I know that it will come out somewhere
but I am not interested in finding out how it comes out
it undoubtedly has an effect
reflecting it directly is not my mission
when it has moved something in me where a sense of melancholy permeates a piece,
I let it come out
but knowing how its history and whence and under the influence of
what it has come to me is not important to me
ultimately it has been translated into something and has come out
– what medium do you most work in?
I love oils
I work mostly on canvas but also sometimes on wood
the problem with wood is that you can not roll it up and carry it with you
but …
the smell of oil paint, the textures, the way it moves, its tempo
for me is very magical
— it seems to me that you don’t title individual pieces but rather title series, am I right?
yes
well I work in series
you look at the other extreme and you have someone like Gerhard Richter
who for example titles a piece “Abstract painting 450”
I like to let this poetic outlook which is in me apply to the titles as well
but as I said they are all within a series
many connect with the series Fragments of Poetry and Silence
I think perhaps I read it somewhere and it stuck in my mind
and then these pieces came along and they connected
Part 05
Exhibitions
I have had many exhibitions
my first one was in 1986 I think,
a group exhibition
since then, I have always been active
and have had many exhibitions
probably 5 or 6 group shows a year,
a solo show every year or every other year
some years more, some years less,
for example one year I had 2 group shows and another year 12
at any rate the work has to be presented, it has to be aired, it has to be seen
I am always looking for opportunities to show my work
I currently work with 3 galleries regularly
one in San Francisco, one in Los Angeles and one in London
I do look for other opportunities to show in other galleries well
– in the shows you have had in the US or Europe, have you ever gotten feedback about your being an Iranian painter?
they usually announce it in the titles of the show or their press releases that this is a show by an Iranian born painter,
I assume you are talking about people seeing the works and having the feeling that this was from an Iranian painter
yes,
people have told me that the pieces have an Eastern or Iranian feel
I recently sold a small piece from the Conference of the Birds series
the buyer took the painting to be framed
and when the frame maker saw the piece said “this has a very Persian feel to it”
I was very pleased to hear that, that’s exactly what I am after
yes, it has happened
– tell us about this show (Aria Gallery), how it came together, how you prepared for it, what kind of feedback you have received?
I wanted to have an exhibition in Iran for may years
there were the problems of transporting the paintings
and being eligible for mandatory military service, it was’t easy for me to come and go as I pleased
last year I found out that those above the age of 50 are automatically exempt from military service
I called the Interest Section of Iran in Washington D.C. and the lady on the phone kept telling me
“you are fine, not to worry, you are exempt, all you need is your passport”
I then contacted Aria Eghbal to ask for advice on which galleries
might be interested in helping out with bringing the works over
and in general with help with research about having an exhibition in Iran
fortunately she herself offered me a show at her gallery and we started to work on the plans for the exhibition
on the other hand in the past few years,because of the social media and the internet,
I had connected with Iranian artists
especially – but not necessarily – the younger artists
and many were very encouraging,
saying that they were looking forward to my showing here
I am happy to say that the reception so far as been positive and warm
it makes me extremely happy
this is my first exhibition – my first solo exhibition – in Iran which has been very important for me
– what do exhibitions teach you? What do you learn from having an exhibition?
well first of all the feedback from the audience
secondly, looking at it from an entirely practical point of view,
you want to sell so that you can continue working
our whole goal from selling work is so that we can continue to work without having to do other jobs
and to sell, well, you need to have exhibitions
so both, the feedback from the audience and the fact that you have to sell the work
to be able to do more work
— is it important for you to have the viewer comprehend your work?
or you think that you have to explain it to them?
how do you connect with the viewer?
I don’t believe that you have to connect with every viewer.
as long as you have connected with a handful of viewers
you have done your job right
because not every work will please everyone nor is it supposed to
and work that tries to satisfy everyone usually diminishes in quality
I try, as much as possible, to explain where the work has come from and what the idea behind it is
and actually this has been very effective when I talk with people who have not had much experience with abstract art;
I talk to them about music and the elements of music, when you look at the work in these terms you see them differently
when you hear a Tar passage you don’t say “what does this mean?”
or a piano passage you don’t say “what is this? what does this mean?”
in painting, because of the historical baggage it carries,
objectivity is well rooted and you usually look for things you can recognize
when I tell them to look at the work with musical eyes, I see a spark in their eye, that’s something they had never thought about
then I see that they start to get it, I don’t know to what extentbut a window opens up at least,
you know
music has always had the advantage of being accepted as an abstract form by people
but painting has had to traverse a longer path
— what has your reaction been to negative reviews which can be even hurtful, if you have had any?
in the social media online, and even on different sites,
you put your work on a site where Iranians post all different sort of things
someone posts a comment under your work who has never been to a gallery in his entire life,
nor is it ever in the cards for him to go to one
does not even know where the museum is,
or how to spell it
he leaves a negative comment, what do you do with that?
sometimes you have to let it go
years ago I had my work on one of these sites
and someone left a comment “these look like the bottom of my unwashed pots in the sink”
I took that as a kind of compliment since those are very beautiful textures
he kept harping on and I ended up blocking him
I don’t have the time or the patience for these kind of things
if there’s someone who has some knowledge of art history etc
and talks about why a piece is weak or unsuccessful, then we can talk
but if you are not on the same page, it is really a waste of time
I am not interested in convincing everyone, nor can you convince everyone,
you just waste your time
Part 06
Characteristics of the Artist
first of all, the roving and roaming that we entered into was very different than that of the young peoples’ today
just as I look back to see how that of Sadegh Hedayat’s differed from ours in nature
these days the young students who go over there have Skype and other tools,
they are in in constant and immediate contact with their family and friends
a newspaper is published in Iran and you can immediately open it up with a touch of the finger
in our time there was the long distance phone call which was very expensive,
a magazine or newspaper from Iran might take 2 months or longer to reach you,
you were overjoyed to get a copy of a copy of a copy of the cassettes
of Shahr e Gheseh (Bijan Mofid’s The City of Tales) or Banan (classical Iranian singer)
it was a different world
and well, I was 16 years old, I had arrived in a new land,
I wanted to learn, open up to this new culture
on the other hand fortunately, mostly because of my father and the atmosphere I was brought up in,
my cultural skeleton had already formed to an extent
many at my age, or even older, came here and soon forgot their culture
or their Persian is deteriorated or at the least they speak it with an accent
I consciously tried to divide my reading between Persian and English,
language has always been very important for me
one of those courses in high school that I mentioned I got good grades in was Persian grammar
I had a special interest not only in keeping my Persian but improving it
especially since I was no longer in that cultural atmosphere,
it was’t an atmosphere where my language could naturally breath in
it was always very important to me to try to pick the positive elements of everything,
I would necessarily not delve into anything fully
maybe there was something postmodern forming in me without myself being aware of it;
picking out elements I find positive and putting them together
in our own culture as well
there were some traditions which I did not find appealing
I tried not to have much to do with those and keep the positive aspects
to help me both in my own growth and eventually the society’s,
if we can go that far
when you learn the language better you can enter the culture more
an interesting point, as I mentioned, when I was an adolescent in Iran
I was very much drawn to modern Iranian poetry, later as well
it took me a long time to get accustomed to English language poetry
because sensibilities in the modern poetry of France, Spain and Italy are much closer to ours
English language poetry on the other hand – American or English – has a different sensibility
and I was trying to connect with it with the sensibility that I was familiar with and just couldn’t
It took me years to realize that you have to approach it from another angle
well, these things come with time and spending time in the new culture
as long as you are open to new experiences
my friends are American, Iranian, international
I have never tried to close myself off
now this new technology has actually caused a lot of Iranians who
go there to remain in a closed environment as I see it
I see Iranians there who go to Iranian plays
but I don’t see them going to non-Iranian plays
even though where I live, San Francisco, is one of the major theatrical centers
you know what I mean? They create a cultural ghetto for themselves
one thing that has been very important for me and comes out in my work is that
I rediscovered Attar through Peter Brook
we had read the simplified version of Attar’s The Conference of the Birds in high school
but years later Peter Brook’s work captivated me
he had written a very interesting play on The Conference of the Birds and through that I rediscovered the piece
this whole issue was very interesting for me
one of the series that I have been working on for more than 20 years is The Conference of the Birds
which is still ongoing
every once in a while a new piece may join the series
I think there are more than 60 pieces in the series so far
gravitating towards …
mysticism or spirituality – the word spirituality has been so abused and misused
that it has lost its luster somewhat –
in a way
what I call the poetic view of existence,
I prefer to put it this way,
again, spirituality and mysticism have become so threadbare due to misuse
I think this has always been with me but has come to the forefront more in these years
someone asked me a very interesting question when I was much younger,
he was even younger than me,
he said “you are lucky to be a painter, it must be a lot of fun”
I thought for a moment and said no, not necessarily
you just don’t think about pleasure or pain and such, you just don’t see it within that framework,
it has nothing to do with pleasure or pain,
it becomes a need,
just like breathing
I just have to do it,
I am off-kilter when I don’t
sometimes it is not really enjoyable
but it is something you have to do, that you are doing, to get to a point
and when and if you do, that’s when it becomes enjoyable
the process itself is sometime not enjoyable at all
but you can not do anything other than that,
it is a need of the soul,
a physical need even
I even physically feel ill when I have not worked for a while
I see that I am off balance,
if I have not been able to make it to the studio in a while
so the reason?
it becomes like breathing, what better reason than this?
– what would you have liked to be if you had not become a painter?
an orchestra conductor
music has always played a very important role in my life
and had I started earlier I would have definitely pursued it
when I was younger, I did not have knowledgable people around me to encourage me
there were others who started music classes with me
and
one of the for example is a choir director at Yale University
unfortunately there were no knowledgeable people around me then
it was said that it was too late to start then
I have played around with different instruments but I never really learned to play and stay with one instrument
my direct experience with music has been singing in choirs
which started in 1981
— where?
in Reno, Nevada where I lived then
and I am honored that I have had the chance to work for a few years with maestro Vahe Khochayan
who was a fantastic musician really of an international caliber
he was the conductor, and if I am not mistaken,
the founder of the National Iranian Radio and Television Chamber Orchestra before the revolution
his work was exceptional
the first piece I sang with him was the Mozart Requiem in 1981
and then
I was in the university choir he conducted us in many concerts over the years
after the university I joined various choral groups, of which there are many,
and have worked with different choirs since
our last concert a few months ago incidentally was was the same Mozart piece
other than painting, it’s the only thing that I have done continuously over a few decades
– I would like to know how you create a balance between the world of imagination and the real world?
Let’s call it the internal world, not necessarily the world of imagination
your internal world does not need to get in the way of your external world
the Zen master, Alan Watts, has an interesting thing to say:
“when you reach the light or enlightenment,
you go about your normal day,
you just walk this much above the ground”
it does not have to pose any particular contradiction
if anything, it would affect the other side positively,
it makes you lighter
that other part you have to deal with anyway,
there’s no getting around it
if you are married, if you have children,
your car needs the oil changed etc
I have always wanted to be an instrument of propagating culture
to spread around what is good
you know,
you try to take out the weed and plant better and more beautiful
flowers in the garden that you create around yourself
this is what I have always been interested in and
I never had to think about it twice
I always involved myself in different cultural activities
I created and ran the site Museum of Contemporary Iranian Artists (MoCIA)
since I saw the lack of a comprehensive and reference like site on Iranian artists
there were not too many websites on Iranian artists then,
I started this site about 20 years ago and ran it for 10 years
the cost and the time it required were just too heavy a burden on just one person’s shoulders
otherwise I would have continued it, I could make it richer and more comprehensive
there is still not a comprehensive site that you can go to
that would show all the Iranian galleries around the world or cover all Iranian artists
this still can be done, but it needs backing and a budget.
as I go further and grow older,
the more I understand the need to let go of what is ancillary
so that I can focus more on painting
there’s just no time
I have been singing in choirs for years
every once in a while I leave because I get very busy and don’t have the extra time
after a while I miss it and I go back
and the cycle continues
painting has priority for me
but cultural activities have always attracted me
because you want to spread what you find beautiful
and useful in helping people grow
the subject of being influenced is something I have thought about a lot.
there are many,
at the beginning when I had become interested in painting
maybe one of the ones that influenced me most was Renoir
he does not have the same importance for me now
Renoir …
has an introductory affect, he brings you in
how can one deny the influence of Van Gogh?
or that of Francis Bacon?
Dali in a certain period
these influences, you know, are not reflected directly in one’s work
in general
we are all influenced by one another
the important thing is for these influences to be digested
and lead to a new thing, that is what originality is in my opinion
what is to be said is what has been said throughout the ages
as hafiz says but it has to be retold in a new way
and this means digesting the influences
the influences are coming at us from every direction
some are even influenced in their work by other artist subconsciously,
they themselves may not even be aware of it
at first I was attracted to Dali’s work and then De Chirico’s
because of their poetic space
which questions reason
everything is real but at the same time has no direct
correlation with the external world
later when I gravitated more and more towards abstract art
my eyes opened up to many others
the most important one is Gerhard Richter who has
definitely influenced my visual language,
Anselm Keifer, both German,
Joan Michell, american painter of the 1950’s and 60’s,
there are many
generally I look for good work, something that moves me
the style is of no consequence
sometimes you see classical or neoclassical pieces that do that
in the school of Zen,
the monks sit in meditation with a brush and a bowl of ink next to them
they come out of meditation and make one brush stroke on the paper
sometimes there is so much life in that stroke,
that’s what I look for
that is what is important to me in the works that I look at
I may even not like a work that I see by a painter whom I like,
I try not to put anyone on a pedestal but go by their works
let me also add that I have learned more from other artistic disciplines
during my undergraduate studies at the university
most of my friends were photographers
I have learned a lot from photography
not a direct influence
but sensibilities and these kinds of things show up in one’s work,
from poetry a lot as well
as far as influence from other painters,
well I consider them more as colleagues
I am moved by their good pieces when I see them
but my influence have mostly come from outside the field of painting
I have always found that interesting myself
the conflicts inside the studio find their own way and resolve themselves,
at least I have learned to trust that it happens this way
the other conflicts …
… mostly …
have to do with the internal and the external worlds
coming to terms with one another and the world in which you have to
cut your studio time to be able to pay the rent
that has always been the crucial problem,
running after your daily bread versus running after your heart
the very tangible main problem there has always been this
– what do you see as the key to your success?
diligence
… and
never giving up
sticking with what I have faith and believe in and pursue from the bottom of my heart
even when it may not
have had enough feedback,
not to give up and continue
– in which direction do you think your work will go in the future?
I don’t know and that’s what interests me
when I look at my work now and think to myself that 2 years ago,
could you have imagined that these works would come out of your studio?
no
and that is part of its attraction for me, not knowing in which direction it will go
will it become simpler? more complicated?
more in this direction or that direction?
I don’t know and that’s what I find attractive about it
Part 07
On Art
– what characteristics do you find valuable in a work of art?
in the first place it has to move me
and that’s hard to put your finger on what that exactly means,
grabs you right here
it can be a small dot on a big plane,
it can be a finely detailed work that has been worked on for 5 years
anything … something that
happens, rarely, but it does happen,
when you see something that stops you in your tracks
you can’t put your finger on it
but when it happens you know that this has something
that’s what I look for when I visit museums and galleries
I walk past many pieces quickly and just spend time with the ones that grab me
when I was younger I would pause in front of every piece
and try to connect with and understand it
now I speed through the museum and then go back and spend
hour or two with the pieces that catch my eye
– what is your definition of traditional art and modern art
and do you think they are in conflict with one another?
the concerns of traditional art are quite different that those of modern art,
they are products of different times
the inherit anxiety in modern art regarding the industrial age,
it is altogether a different world
traditional art is generally an affirmation of traditions and all that is well rooted in a culture,
it does not usually present you with any challenges
I see the zenith of traditional art of Iran in the miniature paintings of
the Shah Tahmasb period
when perspective found its way into Iranian miniature paintings
the result was a discordant hodgepodge,
which was neither this nor that
it took away from the deeply touching beauty of the Iranian miniature paintings,
which did not see a need to present space as you see it
when there is a pool, it is held up flat and right in front of you “this is a pool”
this also connected with the medieval art in Europe
where there was no need to depict Jesus realistically,
they depicted him in a distorted way to bring out and to show you his pain and suffering
what mattered most was the emotive quality behind it
to tell you the truth, there is no love lost between me and the art of the Qajar period
and afterwards well, there was Kamal-ol-Mol
he had some positive effect on the art of the period but mostly hindered the progression
of the – let’s say new art and not modern art –
in Iran since he was somewhat behind the times
the most interesting period in Iranian contemporary art
for me is the period of the early modernists
those who were both trying to align themselves with the character of the modern era
and were also searching for their indigenous identity
their works , Ghandriz’s work for instance,
are still quite powerful and important
especially now that in the West too,
well you can’t call it a return to modernism or even neo-modernism,
but modernism is gaining importance in a way
I was recently thinking that even Iranian modern artists who
had gone back and worked with tradition,
even in the Saqakhaneh period,
they brought back and were implementing into their own culture a western point of view.
this has been a question for me
Modernism is essentially a western phenomena
even when abstraction enters our art, it is entirely a western view
now we go back and say that “ok, abstract elements have been present in our art,
in rugs, Gabbehs, mosque tiles etc and we can use them as base material and build on
but this whole view that goes back and extracts these elements from within our culture
is western in itself
this has been a question for me that I don’t have an answer to
Iranian contemporary painting at the present time …
we have some very good painters
but many are overly influenced by what is going on the art world in the West
back to what I pointed to before,
events like these Dubai auctions, Christies etc. have distorted the space somewhat
you see excellent pieces along with works of very little artistic merit find their way
into these auctions and they sell for more or less the same price sometimes
this has distorted the whole picture
when the dust of this whole thing settles,
we’ll see what remains and I believe it will be damaging to our art
but later on, I think some good things will come out of these ashes
we have a great many talented artists,
wonderful works are being created
but still the eyes are turned towards the west
there have not been too many periods in our modern history
where we have not looked to the West
in a way we only accept ourselves when we are packaged by the west
and presented back to ourselves by them
an interesting example from before the revolution;
all of a sudden
Balouchi and folkloric dresses became all the rage,
very fashionable people were wearing them
the reason was that the hippies had discovered them
so we don’t often value ourselves until we are packaged
by the West and presented – back – to ourselves
another thing that has been on my mind, for example;
an Egyptian author, a Turkish author, a Japanese author
we don’t go and discover them,
we wait for the west to discover them
and then we translate their works and from English too
we never look towards the East
to see for instance what is going on in the Korean contemporary literature,
what is going on in the Tunisian literature
if a Tunisian author is discovered over there and becomes famous in the west
then we translate his work with a degree of pride that
“you know, he is from our neck of the woods”
this problem has always been there and still exists
amongst our painters, amongst our artists
I wish I had a solution for it but at least becoming aware
of the problem perhaps is the first step
there are Iranian artists who have found prominence on the world stage
but Iranian painting? I don’t know
painters who become famous overnight and have their works sold
at exorbitant amounts at those auctions,
you have them
and then we have those like Nicky Nodjoumi and Yektaii whose works
are well established and highly regarded internationally
so I can say that there are Iranian painters whose works are at an international level and
are respected internationally but I can’t say they same thing about Iranian painting in general
– what are your thoughts on
the new forms of art like video art, performance art
or installation – which you have a problem with?
my problem is with the word (Chidemaan=installation) not with installation itself,
I prefer Fazaa Pardaazi
– what is your relationship with these new forms?
I can connect with good work
but I see a lot of video art …
in my opinion …
I have seen very few that have moved me
about performance art;
we had the same situation at the university in the US
and I found it interesting that those working in performance art
were completely unaware of the history of the modern and avant-garde theatre
they were not aware that[00:08:37.14
many of these things that they were just experiencing in their work
were done 60 years ago in Poland
or that people like Grotowski and many others had
done far more experimental works than these
this goes back to the lack of knowledge and the lack of familiarity with art history
I have come across this a lot in performance art
so really, I have seen too few that have moved or grabbed me
some of it goes back to their thinking that
– well not all but many, I can not generalize here –
that these are experiments that are being presented and performed for the first time
and just as I said earlier about teaching art,
to me it is very important for an artist to have a
solid and classical foundation and it is
important to know art history,
to know those who were really our colleagues,
who shared our concerns in the times past,
what did they do?
how did they deal with some of the – still common – concerns?
Caravaggio perhaps dealt with some of the same issues and responded in a different way
but some the the problems he face are not to dissimilar to the ones a painter faces today
but in performance art, as I said, they are often unaware of what had transpired before
critique in art is very important and …
one thing I have to say;
it seems that it has become very common to use the word criticizer (montaghed)
instead of critic (monaghed) and many don’t seem to realize the difference between
the two, as if they have the same meaning
you hear “art criticizer”,
I think it should be art critic
the job of a criticizer is to criticize,
a critic is one who critiques and analysis
critique of art work goes back to hermeneutics and interpretation of the work
often the critic sees things in a piece that
the creator of the piece has not been consciously aware of
that has its place and a painter can learn from that for future pieces
– you have surely been subjected to various critiques
yes
— of your own work as well as those of others
I don’t know how aware you are of the situation here, if you are,
can you make a comparison between the state of art criticism there versus here?
what are the differences?
the critiques of my work have not yet had a negative one amongst them, knock on wood!
but of course you come across negative reviews there
— I would like to know what differences you see between art reviews in Iran and
where are now, if you are aware of them of course, what differences do you see?
I follow art reviews there in the local papers for example,
you find both positive and negative reviews and
the critics are established and well known
you know that he or she has a background
in and is knowledgeable
about art and the goings on in the art world
the critics who write over there are known figures,
at least in the more well known newspapers and magazines
the negative reviews that I have seen are not attack articles,
they point out the weakness of a work of art with reasoning behind it;
here it is weak because of this, here it works because of that etc
I follow the art reviews and the art publications in Iran to the extent that I can
but I have also heard from my artist friends that some reviews cannot be written because
if you write a negative review you create enemies and you are boycotted
– do you believe in an artist having a social role?
even when you can move one person, move something in him or her,
it means that you have contributed to the evolution of their perception
this
is both more fundamental and more internal than a raised fist
and more long term in its effect
there is no telling where, when and in what way this stirring that you
have caused in the viewer would manifest itself
in this way, yes
but in terms of marching ahead of a group of people with a raised first,
no, I don’t believe in that
– do you think that the digital age can bring the age of painting to an end?
no,
the digital age can not bring the age of painting to an end
every once in a while they sound the death knell for painting
and then you see that it has been an absurd and hollow claim
there’s something special about painting that has to do with its tactile quality,
with the energy that comes out of your hands,
that brush stroke which makes a difference to see it up close rather seeing it in a book,
the energy that you get from that
I don’t think anything can replace it, at least as far as I can see
as I said, many times painting has been declared dead, replaced with this other thing,
a while later again they pronounce painting dead, replaced with that other thing
it has not died yet
and I think it will live for some time to come
I don’t know about 100 years from now
now, we take these little things out of our pockets
which connect us to the whole world,
any information you want you can find
how can we tell where we will be 20 years from now?
as far as I can see though, painting will survive
Part 08
On Life
— I want to ask you about migration, what effect has migration had on your work?
this becomes an abstract question since I can’t really know what
my work would have been like had I not immigrated
The answer could be an imaginary one since
I don’t really know what would have happened had I stayed
a few days ago a friend asked me if I had the same mind set when
I was 16 that I have now, would I have left Iran?
my response was that it is impossible to say
I have arrived at where I am now after so many years of
work and banging my head against the wall …
this is something that I could in no way have had at the age of 16,
I told him that the question is wrong to begin with
– does it make a difference for an artist where he lives?
for different artists, naturally
if you live in Iran as an Iranian artist,
certain cultural concerns may be more pale for you,
not necessarily, but possibly
as opposed to living abroad
where you feel you have lost something or that you are gradually losing it
maybe the artists who live here
are more interested in how to become an international artist
and in going in that direction
so it definitely has an effect but these effects manifest themselves
differently in different individuals and the way they work
– where is your home? it it the US? is it Iran?
see, I have moved around a lot these years and lived in different places
many of my friends have stayed put in one place
in one place for 20, 30 years
I don’t say that it is easy for me to pack up and go
but in a way I actually think it is easy for me
this restlessness
has become intrinsic in me
maybe I have some gypsy blood in me, I don’t know
I have moved around so many times that
being rooted
has become a dream for me in a way you know …
where is my home?
I don’t still know in a way …
I know that I am a culturally diverse being,
you know,
there I am not fully American, here not completely Iranian
and in Europe not fully either
I have reached a point where I believe that
the most important thing in life is for us to create
a little garden around ourselves, a healthy little garden
Maybe it will touch someone else and perhaps if they do the same,
if enough people do this maybe a magnificent garden will take shape
this is where I am at now
and also in the type I work I do,
with all the cultural influences and external factors coming through the work
it is somewhat internal in nature,
I go inside and it becomes something universal, it is something more general
in the work of someone who’s work deals more directly with the issue of culture,
it shows up in a different way
Another example,
I have changed studios a lot too
sometimes there for various reasons you have to
even my American friends were asking me if it wasn’t difficult
for me to get re-settled in a new studio and start over again
and I would say no, what is important for me is to work
once I move into a new space,
as soon everything finds its place
I get to work like this
it doesn’t matter that I am not quite settled in the new space
the important thing is that I work
so you can say that I have a shack inside me which I take with me wherever I go,
I no longer have a specific home
– which has been the most important, or the most determinant period in your life
that established your path in the direction that you desired?
one that I can think of,
perhaps there have been more determinant periods than this,
there was a time when for a year and a half I did not let anyone in my studio
I was working on many pieces
and it wasn’t like today that you keep posting
photos on Facebook “this is what I am working on now”
I felt that I was set free
I was working on 20 piece for a long time
and they were just not getting anywhere
after about a year and half all of a sudden,
one by one they started falling into place
that was a point of departure for me,
I think something shifted to a higher plateau
from then on my work went into a different plane
everything that has come since has been the continuation of that
– tell me how art has affected your lifestyle?
I have been blessed with a spouse who has always supported my work
and loves my work and I know that it is not because she loves me,
she really gets and understands the work
fortunately I have a wife who has always been supportive and encouraging
and well, these are things that you have to balance in life,
there’s no getting around it
you try to consciously tend to that part of your life,
to spend more time with your spouse
but you see, our life is – well,
now that I don’t have a “day job” and work in the studio all day –
I go to the studio in the morning, come home in the evening,
we have dinner together, watch something on TV,
or I sit at the computer contacting galleries etc
process the photos I had taken the week before from the recent work,
these kind of things
the next day the same thing all over again
every once in a while we go to a concert or a play
fortunately these home theaters have replaced the need to go to the cinema
but we don’t really have time for anything else
we don’t go to parties really and we don’t throw parties either
there is just no time
it is not a life that I complain about,
as long as I can get my work done and I am healthy,
which so far I have been, I am happy
– what is your biggest wish?
I don’t want to reach for a large boulder that I can not lift;
world peace and such which some wish for,
we have a long way to go for that and may never even reach it
that there’d be less pain in the world,
to see less pain, I don’t know really
– what gives you hope and what makes you despair?
what gives me hope and what makes me despair both have to do with the same thing
and that is the future of humanity
my chips are still on the table
I don’t know if the red or the black will win
my hope
let’s say red is better – is on red
sometime you are taken over by doubts but then again
sometimes you see things in the world that give you hope
– what in your opinion is imagination and creativity and what is the relationship between the two?
imagination may be not being bound to the gravity of the earth,
to take flight,
not to fall into the trap of reason,
goes back to the idea of being poetic, being fluid
creativity perhaps
is finding connecting points which at first are not clear,
which are maybe hidden under other things
in general my fondness for mystical traditions goes back to what I said earlier,
a poetic outlook on existence, a non-linear view
poetry itself you know is a manifestation of this outlook,
when I talk about the poetic I am not talking about poetry, I am talking about the energy behind poetry
and …
so that’s why the different mystical schools from around the world have interested me,
especially where they overlap, their commonalities,
because the real thing is there, the rest you can call native accents even
whether …
it is Sufism, Taoism or Zen,
that thing that says that when you focus intently on one thing
it is as if you have grasped the whole universe in that thing and vice versa
this notion has always been very attractive to me
and has pulled me along in different ways
Zen on one hand and taoism on the other hand
Sufism, not deeply,
its ideas, the mystical ideas
again, especially where they overlap, Native American mysticism even
I have always had this feeling since childhoodthat I am just passing through here …
– you mean in the world
in the world
as if I am just observing and moving on
and that this is only part of the story
I am not talking about soul or anything like that but at any rate this is only part of the adventure
and I have had this feeling since childhood
maybe some of it goes back to that
how much of it is genetic, how much of it comes from one’s influences in childhood,
I don’t know where it came from
I have always gravitated towards –
– well, not poetry,
but the poetic
and again, when I talk about mysticism for me it is exactly that poetic outlook, the non-linear outlook
an outlook that goes beyond time since narrative and linearity confirm and emphasize time,
they demarcate time
being free, you are boundless and everywhere at the same time,
this thing can have multiple meanings at the same time
in one moment this color pulls you this way at the same time this other thing is happening,
this has always been in me
where does it come from?, I don’t know
and perhaps I don’t need to know
— it seems that your whole methodology and the way you work comes out of this
absolutely
either this comes out of that or that comes out of this, I don’t know which feeds off the other
but that’s correct, they are completely related
— what is the best suggestion you have ever received regarding your work?
a technical advice, from one of my teachers, which had a great impact on me;
in my student days,
my work was still surrealistic and in oil
He did like my work but he also said that I paint myself into a corner and drain the piece of its soul
his advice was this:
“you know that last brush stroke that you put on to pull everything together?
Don’t”
it was difficult for me at first but I saw that when you allow an open and wild feel to remain in the work,
how much it helps the soul of the piece
I expanded this idea and it came through in my work in other ways but his advice
was engraved in my mind and has helped me a lot
my advice for Iranian artist is to be honest in your work
and allow your external influences to be digested and find their way inside you
to gradually find your own voice,
your own visual language
the most important one is that first point; be honest, work honestly
have faith in your work,
it will take you where it should take you
if the honesty is not there,
you will get trapped in various potholes along the way