Ali Faramarzi
Audio of the Entire Interview
Interview Transcript
Part 01
Part 1: Childhood to High School
I was born in 1329 in the old area of Emamzadeh Yahya
and passed the elementary years in the same area
There was a school called Mohammadi which was a very religious school
My father was a traditional businessman
and a devout religious and insisted that we should attend religious schools
This school had an old large garden as I remember
surrounded by chambers and underneath had a basement
a salon for guests and a bath
It was a very old house and had tall pine trees
For me as a child who was frightened of that environment,
this shape and atmosphere gave me more fear and insecurity.
Furthermore, the school was located in the Jewish area as
it was called then,
where mostly Jewish families lived and had very narrow and spiraling streets
and we had to run to across these streets
due the fear they had created in us
Since we had changed our house and the road to school had changed
I remember most of the days we would arrive
late since we had to get the bus and as a result
we had to wait under the staircase until everybody
would go into the classroom, and we would get punished
because of being late
I remember one time that we were taken to the basement,
and those basements were so terrifying, in order to have us bastinadoed
the school janitor felt sorry for these young children
and told us that he would hit the basement ceiling
with the stick and we had to scream.
On top of the basement was the principal’s office
So there was such an atmosphere and in my opinion
it had a very lasting effect on my moral and mental condition
I wasn’t physically strong as a child
Later in my work, I believe, in my black
and white works and my city periods
all these incidents revealed themselves and we can
see the effect of the childhood period in within details.
During high school, I was not a very bright period
and had many difficulties, but the only thing that would give me
some refuge was solitude and keeping distance with others
But despite being lonely I was a very active child
as well and I wasn’t very reclusive
I used to do a lot of sports and played a lot of soccer
But during the first years of high school with a couple
of kids from my own area that were the same
age as me we started painting,
those areas were very populated and had a lot of children
living in them and our street was the same
During the same time, I had an uncle
who was very interested in photography as a hobby
he came to see my works and told me
who was an artist I order to teach me painting
it was summer then.
I was so ecstatic by hearing this. he took me too a small store run by someonecalled Mr.
Akhavan who used to paint and sold them
he took me there, they were friends
he introduced me and said that I’ve brought him here to learn painting
He asked me a couple of questions and agreed.
He told me to go and bring a sketch book later,
a couple of sessions he asked me to draw pictures and he told me that
he would give me oil paint and canvas
and whatever I painted would be his
I was happy because I didn’t want to pay
although I paid a tuition fee as well
In any case I started working there but ever since that time
I could feel that this was my only path in life
but I don’t really know the reason.
When I go back to images from my childhood
I see that the oldest image in my head from art is the image
of an artist sitting in the nature with his easel in front
of him and he’s painting
Therefore, this picture was in front of me like a mirror
and since that time I felt that my destiny was somehow intertwined with this
As a result, besides attending that class and painting there,
at home I got a canvas and started to paint at home.
I remember the first thing I painted, of course I used to copy back then
was the picture pf Dostoyevsky that I copied from a book from a Russian painter
Later in the same shop I got acquainted with another boy
who introduced me to Petgar’s classes
Jaafar Petgar,
there was a store in Hedayat street which he had turned into a classroom
I found that place but when I looked inside
but when I looked inside from behind the window screen
I saw a few men and women sitting inside painting
with their easels set in front of them.
When I went inside I saw that from a corner where a special lamp
was on someone from behind a canvas asked me what I wanted
I went closer and saw an old man sitting there
I told him I was there to learn painting and I was very interested
He asked me from where I found out about him,
and another artist from Poleh Choobi had also told me about him,
so I said that such person is my uncle,
which I wasn’t lying
and he has told me to come to you
So for years he thought that the person was my uncle
In any case he said ok are you really interested?
And I answered yes I would really like to paint.
He asked me if I had a canvas and I said no so he told me
to buy one and to bring paint too and start painting
I couldn’t sleep that night
I want to get a canvas.
There were some model books and he told me to choose a model for myself
So I chose myself the picture of a naked boy whose painter was also Russian
He asked me if I could paint it
and I said I think so, but I didn’t know sketching at all
Anyhow I started to paint on that canvas and sketched it.
As I can remember, because I was in high school when I went to his classes,
I worked on that painting for 3-4 months and he rarely came to teach me something,
he would make a turn to see everyone’s works but every time
he would make a comment like reduce the ochre color or paint the face like this
and so on. I was always wondering why he wouldn’t teach me anything
he was teaching everyone but me
But I was too shy to ask and in general the master had such a sanctity that I remember there
was a there was a water tap in the class room where that students would use to
wash their hands but there was no water well because it
was a store and so they had put a bucket underneath where
the water would pour inside.
We would be very proud if he would let us take the bucket
to the corner of the street and empty it inside the brook.
It was delightful for us.
Or if he would let us sweep the studio.
It would happen that for some months I didn’t have enough money to pay the tuition,
although I came from a middle class family and we weren’t poor
but my family due to their religious tendencies
, would tell me that what I was doing was Haram
and that they were against them when they were mad at me
or when they were worried about my life.
It was against their beliefs but mostly they were worried about my destiny.
They had understood that I was serious about my work
In any case I remember that for a few moths I was not able to pay for my classes
Well I was very ashamed about this,
but on the other hand I was so devoted that I could not let go of my classes.
One day he called me over and I went to see him where he always used to sit and I thought
he was going to talk about my tuition,
but instead he quietly said to me:” I didn’t open this place to take money from everyone
You can come here as long as you want and don’t worry about the tuition
That’s it. Now go back to your seat.
I started going every day
At the end, even on Fridays two of his sons would come
and we would open the shop and we would sit inside and paint.
Anyhow, I think that attitude became a model for me
and what the society and myself later …
because I personally didn’t know anything about
lives of artists because my family did not have any cultural background and my information
was very naïve and general like the rest of the people about art and artists.
And the image the society had at that time about artists was a bunch of losers and addicts
But what I saw from him was completely the opposite
how he had resolved the conflict between art and
religion within himself or is trying to resolve.
He wasn’t very well off either but he was always
very neat and clean and on time and so this proved the exact
opposite of the images we had in mind about artists.
Part 02
Part 2: Painting and Drawing and …
After working with Jaafar Petgar for a while
, he had seen my interest in painting and told me that he had a young nephew
who has a class in Serah Shah behind the super store
and that I could get acquainted with him since
he was also a nice young person
I got the address from him and found the place
and was ashamed to enter at first
but I went in finally and the same story was repeated.
We went in and saw a tall young guy in the class
and there were a few ladies as well
I told him that I painted and I was his uncle’s student.
He greeted me with a very warm and welcoming manner
and was very respectful towards me
especially he had a lot of respect for his uncle
He was Mr. Naami Petgar who was Asghar Petgar’s son
and his father was also a painter, so Jafar and Asghar Petgar were both painters
who had come to Tehran from Tabriz
and Naami and Nima were Asgha’rs sons
So his warm behavior towards me and the respect he had for his uncle
resulted in a close relationship with him
One day he told me that if I liked we could go and work on nature
and later we called it nature-making and we would go in the nature to paint
During the same time
At Mr. Jafar Petgar’s classes there was a girl almost my age
who was called Zamkieh Rahimi who also became a painter
So the three of would go together
We started at three people but the number grew bigger gradually
and we became a group somehow
And for a few years we continued this nature painting program.
The first time I saw sketching was from Mr. Naami Petgar’s hand.
And out in the nature he drew for us and we realized how much you can do with a pencil.
This acquaintance later became closer and developed
into a friendship and even in period of time we were together day and night
and it was so valuable for me
I had put high school aside and I remember at grade 6 of high school
I failed again and I gave up school.
And as much as my family put pressure on me
I told them I did not want to continue studying
This obliged me to start teaching from a certain
age to earn money, even when I did not have a very strong technique myself.
The source was again Naami because he referred a few of his students to me,
people who couldn’t come to his classes
and he told them that I could go and teach them. It started from there.
At the ages of 16 and 17, as I remember,
I started getting a depression, which was one of the reasons behind my hatred towards school,
In a way that I was obliged to seek medical help
What I mean is that the problem of depressionwas always with me
After becoming acquainted with Naami Petgar
he had the same problems and during a certain period
he was facing severe depression and so was obliged to go to a psychologist
and a psychotherapist near his class in Amir-Akram intersection
who was called Dr. Parviz Farvardin
I also started seeing that doctor but I didn’t have enough money to pay for his sessions,
so he told me that it was alright
I could pay him back later with paintings
But he didn’t really need any paintings
he just wanted to encourage me so that I would continue painting
and to continue going there He really liked me.
Dr. Farvardin had specific characteristics
firstly, he followed zen, which is a school of Buddhism
which really had a deep effect on my behavior and temper and still has.
During the same period
I got to know another psychologist called Isa Jalali,
who had self-discovery courses
Painting and self-discovery sessions were two things that I pursued all my life.
During 50s,
I became friends with Mohsen Malek-Adeli who was a friend of Nima Petgar,
they were friends and college mates in Italy
but Mohsen had pursued sculpting
and had returned to Iran and became a sculptor.
As a result of his Asthma problems
Mohsen was looking for someone to help him with his work
I had spare time and was also both interested and perseverant in these matters
so we became close friends and as a result
I started to learn and work in sculpture to a large extent
So this became a very efficient and important period for me
and led me to learn sculpting and also became familiar with modern art
especially from Italy and had a significant influence in my way of thinking.
Before the Revolution
they had built a club called the Elite’s Club (Bargozidegan) and every year
they used to hold an exam for young people under 30
and select those who were talented based on their own criteria
These people would be given membership to that club
and would be supported.
I took part in one of these exams
I think in 1355,
and I got selected and had my first group exhibitionbefore the Revolution
My father used to tell me that if I was to take all my paintings to our baker in our area
he wouldn’t even give me a piece of bread
But when I was awarded 30000 Tomas
which was a lot of money at that time
I told him so here is the money for the baker’s bread.
Part 03
Part 3: Experiences during the 50s and 60s
When the Revolution started in 1356
since I was coming from a middle class family with a religious background
I naturally felt a sort of joy I naturally felt a sort of joy
movement and responsibility and it taught us how to participate
And it was also influential in our way of thinking
and observing, and also analyzing conditions of our time and society
Our friends and relatives and people in our area were all getting
more involved gradually in the Revolution and as
I remember we were the first group that later founded the “Komitee Emdad Emam
but at the same time I continued my paintings and that led me
to get familiar with Tehran Museum of Modern Art
and I got acquainted with the director of the museum who was a young person
that was newly appointed to that position
One of the places that was under a lot of suspicion since
the beginning of the Revolution was the Museum of Modern Art,
since it was a very modern and chic building
and also the works that were kept there were mostly from foreign artists
and also the Museum had been opened in 1356
Due to our field of work and our interest we used to think
that the museum should stay open and continue its activities
Therefore, a sort of resistance was formed in front of those who due to any reason
wanted to close the museum.
I, together with Iraj Eskandari and his master Mr. Bahman Boroujeni
decided to start painting very large
works on the walls of the Gallery No. 6 of the Museum, so that the works
could be ongoing and people could come and see them
and there would be a sort of coming and going to the museum
and also the continuity of these works would form a resistance that the museum would not be closed.
As a result, we started working together and purchased large canvases in 4m to 7m.
Mr. Boroujeni had also a very strong technique
I believe that the weakest and less intelligent of all was me
and I worked on that piece for nearly a year
almost incessantly. Other things also happened within the same year
like I got married and so on.
I believe that this issue helped to a large extent in dissuading them from closing the museum.
My work was a surreal work
two very large hands with an eye in between
and in the middle was a globe that ended inside a book
and there were rays of light coming out to all sides
those were very gruesome large claws that were becoming dominant
The book is the symbol of awareness and is glittering rays of light
awareness and intelligence and has formed a beautiful nature around this globe
I told them I wanted to take my work that was kept there
and he agreed and told the employee to send it by museum’s truck
so they brought it for me. A large piece that was simply rolled and still is at our place.
After the Revolution
Italian embassy had a new counsellor, Dr. Machiarella,
who was a positive and very interested young man
Nima, since he knew Italian
was introduced to him and they became friends
The war had started and we had blackouts at night.
I was also acquainted with him through Nima.
After we got to know each other better
he tried to arrange a bursary from The University of Rome for me which was approved
But the war had started, there were limitations for exiting the country
I went to Ershad Ministry, well they cooperated and gave me their approval
But the ministry of Science didn’t, unfortunately
After that incident, Mr. Mchiarella proposed the development
of sketching classes within the cultural center of the Italian embassy
which I did. A large number of students came
some of which are now our famous painters
o I started sketching classes there which lasted 4-5 years
And we had planned to organize an art school with the cooperation of the Italian embassy
However, during that time, consulates of many European countries in Iran were closed
including that of the Italian embassy and those classes were shut down as well
But I still had my own classes and I continued painting as well.
War had started, and everywhere in the world
when war starts it dictates its special conditions,
and so rules for everything is naturally changed.
One of the memories I remember from the time of war is my journeys to Ahvaz
Abadan and then Khorramshahr, although they were short
my older brother who had a poultry farm in Mazandaran wanted to send
a truck containing medicines to the frontlines
we both took it to Ahvaz and the war was very serious
I was frightened to death and wanted to hand over the medicines and go back
but those young people, even girls were present at that time
had stayed in Khorramshahr and were insisting to keep us
for lunch but I was so scared I couldn’t eat anything
We arrived in Dezful at night and there was blackout
and we had to sleep in our car out in the street and suddenly
we felt everything trembling all around us
since Iraq had launched one of its 9 meter missiles and the next morning
we heard in the radio that it was he first missile Iraq had launched to Dezful
All of a sudden I realized I’m in the middle of the street without remembering
how I had ended up there. In any case we stayed there at night and returned the next day
That was one of those memories….
but also in Tehran you certainly know about those blackouts
and bombardments. In the meantime, I was married and had a newborn son
and I was continuing my classes and my painting
For a period, I worked on some black and white metal pen
pieces called missile attack nights
a few of which were used for a while in a cultural program
of the Iranian Television as its openning
I remember when the peace resolution was signed I had a private exhibition
in the Museum of Modern Art which was largely received.
Part 04
Part 4: Work Periods
It is not such that one period begins and ends for me and then the next period starts
but based on my needs and also my mental and emotional conditions
I can go through any of these periods and
I feel that each of them constitute a piece of my characteristic dimensions
and I’m very pleased as a result of this
Because I can respond to my psychological and intellectual needs
Because in reality I started painting by traditional methods and during the entire history of painting
the tradition was such that at times painters had their look on the nature
and at times to mankind including portraits
figures or any other elements
I also learned and experience painting on the same basis and I moved forward
But this came together with other experiences I obtained through self-discovery and so it made
it more internal for me and in fact added further dimensions to it.
It led to the development of other elements that called for various forms
and viewpoints either regarding the nature or the mankind
and the problems related to the human being
Which those pulled me towards periods in which
I was observing man’s real living environments including the city and the countryside
and they resulted in almost 8 work periods for me.
Due to learnings from self-discovery courses and psychoanalysis I mentioned earlie
r I got acquainted with different atmospheres and
one of the effects they had on me which I still believe
has remained is that I started looking at a phenomenon from various angles
The same thing that is called post-modern look nowadays.
And not looking at a phenomenon from one angle
This had a very important effect on my mentality and also on my works
that I see the human being as a multi-dimensional creature
This way of seeing introduced new dimensions to me,
either in my view of the existence and the universe or my view of the art
But ever since those periods before the Revolution I viewed art as an instrument
an instrument and tool in which I have an ability that can express my mentality,desires and needs
Art for art didn’t mean much to me and naturally had no place in the life I had
I remember that even before the revolution for
a certain time I had a series of work called “wooden puppets”
a period which placed the human being in the industrial and scientific situations
because due to the type of learnings and mentality that
I had I viewed mankind as a creature that is slave to technology
and industry and is cut from its roots and becomes distant from its individualism
In that period the works on wooden puppets showed those problems and were surreal works
However, by some since they were observed mostly as manifests and expressions and not art
Especially before the Revolution when art had a more aesthetic dimension rather
than paying attention to these sorts of philosophical or social issues
But I would answer that I know this task this much
and it is serving as a tool for me to express my thoughts
Besides this issue that always existed
the familiarity I had developed with the nature shaped two different poles
either those works that had very social
and philosophical aspects and those that were merely about nature
And it always continued in me.
The periods on city is our objective life
I view the city as an objective environment which in my opinion has been ignored in our paintings
I always ask myself why this has happened
What has stopped our paintings to regard the environment in which we live
in which we have grown and pass our lives
Why this has happened?
Isn’t this a hatred towards the urban conditions?
Are we still thinking from within our own rural roots?
Or traditional roots?
Because you know that in European paintings, and even in the East, even in our own miniatures
there was a view towards the objective environment
especially in Impressionists periods it constitutes an important part of the paintings of that time
So the question is why we don’t have that?
This very problem
gradually pulled me towards urban elements
and this changed from rural elements to urban elements
I have wok periods that some people believe they have come from the countryside,
these forms and shapes and textures and others believe that they are gradually becoming urban
and coming from the city until the forms are completely urban
And it showed that these thoughts have formed gradually in me and they weren’t ordered
I haven’t selected them but they were my needs
The period of my urban work are bitter periods, they are not very welcoming periods
I construct city very broken inside and even people involved in an urban life are very broken inside
while they are passing by they are very introverted
“They don’t want to answer my hello.”
Since I took action to open a gallery and naturally did my personal exhibitionsin my gallery,
galleries were not active at that time
I had color pencil works of nature
one period consisted of those works, also large oil color pieces on natur
by nature I don’t mean from real nature but I had done them mentally in a studio
One period consisted of figurative works which were large pieces
most my works were done there
Later when galleries started to open gradually I had exhibitions in different galleries.
I moved from making more general sceneries towards finding some elements and to minimizing.
I got close to those walls gradually and as I said due to the memories
I had from the countryside which were good and positive memories
since we were geusts there so naturally memories
were all good but probably if we lived there they would be otherwise
This minimizing is present in most my works
and the curves that exist in it period show my need to make things minimal and simple.
I was invited to the Stanford University on behalf of its Iranian Student
and I was invited to an exhibition in the United States
I went there and they told me I was the first and the only Iranian painter who gave a lecture there
and it was a free lecture so I could talk about my own pieces,
about my artistic works and life
but I preferred to talk about contemporary painting in Iran and the history of painting in Iran
because I wanted to reflect that in the U.S,
and later I was invited to other places like “Kanooneh Sokhan” in the U.S
as well where I talked about the role of women in contemporary painting in Iran
which was A hard thing to do there
because the atmosphere and different fronts that existed there were not very approving of my speech
but I’m really glad to have been fortunate to be able
to continue my points and show that one of the most important
incidents that has happened post Revolution
was the presence of women in artistic domains in Iran
which has been unprecedented in the country, something I can say with much confidence.
Part 05
PART 5: Work attributes (1)
Are your works mostly influenced by external conditions and socio-political
and geographical situations or they are solely the product of your own mind?
When you enter your studio, all these are hanging on your mind
Geographical, familial, economic conditions and so on, you bring all these into your studio
Separating these for someone who has tried to observe the aspects of his character is very difficult
You cannot draw a line and paint a color regardless of these issues
I’m not able to do that
Without a doubt.
Therefore, one of the way to analyze social and
geographical conditions is analyzing art works which were made at a certain time period
As I mentioned, even if an artist wants to lie,
it becomes obvious, he is saying it himself that
I’ve been lying and then it is possible to study why he had to lie.
Therefore, an artist can never lie
And this is always dominant
but analyzing it is hard, seeing what lies beneath
and in my opinion those who think they can work despite what they really are are either
doing a hard thing or it’s impossible
I always thought that if I belong here, this is automatically reflected in all my features
In the way I talk, my behavior, and how I act and in my work, it is reflected on its own
I don’t need to convince myself and to order myself and try to work as if I belong to here or there
The important thing is that I have to be true to what
I am and this will naturally depict today’s human being
a man who is breathing in this country,
in this land, in these traditions but has still a look at the modern world
This objectivity happens in the lives of all of us if we look at It
from a postmodern view and here was no need
for me to order a specific way of work to myself.
It so happens that the surreal atmosphere is a vast space that provides
the possibility to manifest those characteristics
and this extends the circle of words and this gives me
– more freedom to move around my own emotional atmosphere
and to express them more freely
And if I was pulled toward some sort of surreal or abstract at times it is
because the emotional issues that should be expressed have become so vast in my view that
I have no choice than moving towards surreal or abstract
Today’s condition of the world and especially our geographical region are full
of incidents that drag me towards more surreal or abstract
world, instead of pointing out only a specific point or region.
Art works are made in two ways
one group happen in one instance or one session and they end
which includes mostly sketches and drawings
but also some works in color
Another type of pieces that are made within a time span
and they have a duration which can vary from a few days to weeks to months or years
Now naturally if you create a piece within a period
you cannot keep your emotions exactly like the original ones
My works start with a primary emotion but naturally in the process of making until they end
my thoughts and ideas, characteristics and day to day
incidents that happen around me they all affect that process
especially since I’m a painter that mostly refer to my inner feelings while
I work and let my feelings guide my work
So naturally the work has a tendency towards my emotions
but those emotions are themselves affected by daily conditions my thoughts and all these
We cannot say that an art piece is purely dependent on feelings or on senses
They are together and naturally we select between them as well
and feelings do not play a primary role all the time
That’s not how I think it works.
I believe that the artistic character of any artist is determined by the mental audience that the artist has in mind
Every artist in the process of realizing an artistic work has an audience in his mind
that he likes his work to be approved by that type or that specific character or that audience
And this constitutes the artistic character of that artist
For example, while working, I might prefer my works to be liked by
a certain class of the society or a specific group or a specific critic
And this constitutes my artistic character
This is like when they ask you who your friends are in order to tell you who you are
And this is true in reality
And the fact that what type of people we select in our mind as the target
for our work or subconsciously prefer our works to be approved by that type automatically
leads us towards a specific type of work that is explicit to that class or type
And in my opinion this constitutes the artistic character of every artist.
Before you start your work,
do you determine a goal for yourself, in other words is it engineered beforehand?
Some part of it is determined,
since my needs and my feelings tell me what genre I want to work on
But how to start and from where to start is neither purely unconsciously and emotional
, nor purely based on preselected thoughts and a selection beforehand
But they are in fact simultaneous
It work this way in my case
They work together.
And in many incidents they happen on their own and in some cases
I have started the work without knowing which path I wanted to take
But in some cases it happens that I need to express an issue or a specific feature so much
that this feature determineed what I want to do
When do you realize you have finished your work?
It is very difficult. Picasso said that one of the conditions
of being an artist is that he has to know when to finish his work
Because many times you don’t really know and you can even ruin your work
There is a point when you feel you have finished
but this is not true every time
A lot of times you think the work is finished but after when you look at it
other ideas and changes come to your mind that you may implement them on that piece
But sometimes you may not or you may even ruin the work
During the entire process until you finish the work you are constantly doubting yourself
doubt between saying or not saying, the doubt of whether the piece will be popular or not
while making a piece you constantly become desperate and lose hope
You start again and you try again
An art piece is a life. It is like this for me, maybe for others it is different
For me it has its own struggles and its hopes and despairs
It is in fact an important period of life
I don’t tend to exaggerate the issue or give it unrealistic dimensions
but an art piece will have many ups and downs before it gets
a form and before getting to a point where you want to stop working.
Part 06
Part 6: Work Attributes (2)
When I look at the nature, I naturally look at the natural characteristic
of the region where I’ve live and still live
Iran’s nature has several regions and is very diverse in this sense.
We have forests, plains, deserts and these elements distinguish Iran’s nature
Each of these parts of nature have established a period for me
I have work periods in which there are thick trees that look like forests
Other periods that depict arid and long plains with horizontal and sometimes spiral lines
My view of the desert and desert like plains is not the view of a person who has been born there
It means that I, as a person who is moving and passing along this nature,
look at that part of the desert and want to show my situation there
But those parts that constitute my main memories are villages in mountainous regions
since we used to go to those places in the summer
and my father was from those parts and we had relatives back there
this is clearly a more static view
This constitutes the walls period, rough walls made of mud and straw
And as I said there were period of forests and so on,
each of which are elements of my own geographical region.
I always thought that if I am a person coming from this place
this will be automatically demonstrated in all my features
In the way I talk, my behavior and my words
and how I perform in my work, it will be automatically reflected
I have no need to convince myself or to order myself and try to work as if I’m from here or there-
It is important that I stay loyal to who I am and this will clearly show the human being from this time
a person who is breathing in this land and country
and among these traditions but can still have a look
at the modern world and this is an objectivity that
if we look at it with a post-modern view,
happens in the lives of all of us and there was no need for me to
order myself to work in a specific manner.
And incidentally the surreal space is a vast space which gives
more possibility to demonstrate those features
and develops the circle of expression and gives me
much freedom so that I can wander in my own emotional dimensions
and express them more freely. And if the works are pulled at times toward a sort of surreal or abstract
it is due to the fact that emotional issues that should be expressed in my view
are so vast that gives me no choice than to go towards more general and abstract elements
Situation in today’s world and especially our own geographical region is full of incidents
that push me towards a more surreal and abstract universe,
instead of pointing to a small specific point or region.
Those curved lines that you pointed out are originated from my desert periods
You know that desert has a very calm and comforting shape but holds a storm within
a storm that goes on and threatens our nature and our homeland
These are realities that separated themselves from those desert periods in which my lines
were smooth and mystic curves and I went deep into that issue and saw that
it has a storm inside which threatens everything including nature, trees
I started there
But this storm became simultaneous with those other storms that are looming over the region
aggressions that happen in the region and has turned it upside down
Therefore, they are separating themselves from those periods of only deserts and
are turning into elements that belong to our present conditions
These work periods of mine are called “Attack periods” and
every day that goes by it is proven to be right
this view of the attack that is taking place throughout the world
like the rush of those immigrants, and they attack different dimensions such as nature
culture, politics, economy and anywhere you
look the world is in transition of a period of attack in my opinion
Numerous times I’ve tried to keep my distance
but I couldn’t, they impose themselves, their color and texture
their roughness or smoothness, their aggression to the work.
Periods that include mankind, shows love on one side and misery on the other
These are two innate sides of the human, or two parts of my own character.
A side that can suffer and the other side that can love
and this is what has been reflected in my own real life up to now
and again in those works I’m responding to these two needs in reality.
I feel you use cold colors, isn’t it true?
These are my recent works and during the past few years I’ve felt
this coldness due to the conditions that exist in our region and in our world
Naturally colors become dark and cold
I’ve entered my studio with the aim of using brighter and more cheerful colors
but I’ve been pulled towards that coldness and darkness.
Even when I put a bright color on the work
that color gets a cold feeling and vice versa
As Rumi says: If you’re thoughts are full of flowers you are a garden,
and if you’re low you are like a firewood furnace.”
It means that there’s no way out
Art is where the artist cannot lie
and if he is lying he is saying out loud that he’s lying so in reality he’s telling the truth.
Mediums I’ve used in my works go back to my own technical experiences
from one side and since I’ve been teaching for almost 40 years now
I’ve used various tools in my work
And since I wasn’t an artist that limits himself to a specific method
I’ve naturally worked with different instruments and have learned various techniques on my own
They were mostly worked on by myself
I’ve experienced with different tools and still do
wither in black and white domain and sketching
or in the domain of color I’ve used these tools
I have periods with color pencil and oil color, now I work mostly with acrylic.
Do you work mostly on canvas or on paper?
No, as you can see now in the studio, there are large rolls of paper 1.5 meters wide
I have drawings in large dimensions
And also colored works on canvas
I have special canvas that I have them made with gunny-sack due to its rough texture
I’m used to work on these
I also work on regular canvas
These rough textures entered my works during war years and in one of my work period
in which h I worked on figures I tried to use those textures
in order to show the roughness of the world outside
This continued in my work, especially I used them a lot in specific work periods like the periods of walls
and I still do and I believe that this reflects that rough part of my character
that roughness that I need while working or need to express
But in technical terms, texture is one of the most important elements of visual arts
like color, light and shade and other visual elements
it is a very expressive element and matches our conditions very well and so I use this instrument.
Part 07
Part 7: About Myself
If you want to describe yourself, what would you say?
I still have those characteristics that were the result of my depressions and
still exist in me in the form of anger and aggressive behavior.
But when I compare I think that I have changed in many aspects,
but I’m still going through the struggle between these contradicting attributes
In some periods, I used to read much and think a lot and meditate in some sense
and concentrated greatly on my own mind and thoughts and I still do that today
This really helped me understand the objectives behind my behavior-
my thinking and my tendencies towards any path.
What was the most sensitive day of your life? And where was it?
I can talk about the most sensitive day,
but not about the most important day
Because I don’t know
But the most sensitive day was the day I got married to my wife
because in my life she is the most important person
that introduced me to unconditional kindness and unconditional love
I didn’t learn but at least she showed it to me
I say it without exaggeration
Maybe if you had asked me who has amazed you the most until now I would definitely say my wife
because there are very few days that her attitude doesn’t make me wonder
of all this compromise that exist in her.
I can say today with confidence that I have never preferred anything to my family
even my art
If I had to choose in a situation between my art and my family
despite my anger and nervousness
I think I would definitely choose them as I did in practice.
But naturally an artistic life has its own problems and limitations
and families that live beside or with an artist are without a doubt selfless people.
What problems did you come across in your way?
Just imagine someone who has no academic education and
and has not followed any specific courses in painting
and so faces with different struggles in his work that have different aspects and
they cause naturally their own specific problems and ups and downs
Now this is related to my personal work but just consider that I was an unknown young man
and when I was shaping my identity,
the Revolution happened and
then the war
and social struggles that we faced during this past 30 year
Now you want to stay solid in this situation and you have a family and kids by your side
Now I think, without making a hero
it requires a stamina, a devotion and a consistency that sometimes I wonder how I showed all this
but they all originate from that consistency
Of course beside all this, the truthful cooperation
and empathy that the members of my family showed
me especially my wife helped me enormously to continue my path.
what is your daily plan for painting?
Except for twice a week that I have classes in the morning and in the afternoon
the rest of the week I work which includes painting, writing
reading and all this because as you know I write critical reviews as well
Every morning I should read a number of newspapers
I wake up at 5 a.m. usually, then I do some exercises
like walking and some body building in the park and
then after breakfast if I don’t have classes
I go to my studio and start my work
now this can be reading or painting or writing
I don’t know anyone who at the same time does painting to an extent
that can have an exhibition every year
as well as teaching,
and does art review and
has established an art gallery for all this using his own personal capabilities
I am a person that has never earned any governmental salary up to this day and
have not been supported from any place and just me along me
with my family who have always supported me
have been able to make ends meet.
What do you see as the key to your success in your consistency?
First we have to see if I’ve really been successful
But you are very kind and I think that the key was being persistent
One was persistence and that I was very fortunate in choosing my wife
I really mean it
I’m a very persistent person, I’m very rough and bad-tempered but this has helped me.
has it happened that you haven’t painted for a period of time?
There are periods that in terms of an artist’s psychology
they are called creative stagnation
They are period that it seems that the artist’s creativity has been locked
Now we can study the causes behind this
The problem we have in Iran unfortunately is that
no psychologic work has been done on these problems and
this has harmed our artists at times
For example, these creative stagnation periods happen in an artist’s life and
if the artist is not conscious about this issue, he can bear severe harms in his art
because he will become depressed and
start feeling of frustration as well as uselessness and absurdity and
if he does not regard this as a transition and a process,
there were many talented artists who have put aside their artistic career during this period
But those who are aware of the artistic life and to some extent these periods
they know that they should pass these periods
But being conscious about it is positive because it helps passing them more quickly
When I feel that such a period is coming
I start doing simple sketches
I may even start from very simple geometrical shapes that have no meaning but they are only forms
This keeps my mind warm and it is in reality like a runner or someone
who wants to jump from a height but is running a short distance before
He appears to be quiet and nothing is happening but he’s getting prepared for his next move
Artists should know these periods in my view and they should study them
Artist’s psychology is a very essential matter for our society and
I see significant lack in this regard Unfortunately,
they do not allow to talk about this issue even to people who are expert in these matters
and they don’t even care about these issues
These periods can be very harmful both to young and
experienced artists and they can even stop their artistic
work since they can think of themselves as incapable
undeserving and untalented people, while this is one of the natural attributes of an artistic life.
Besides painting, how do you feel about other artistic fields?
I used to read a lot, books and poetry.
I took Ostad Mohammad Taghi Jaafari to the Museum of Modern Art in 1358
during the time they wanted to close down the museum
one of the things I did was taking him to the museum and
we started a series of sessions in which he talked
about art
and aesthetics and resulted in the book called “Aesthetics
in Islam” that he wrote
We had several sessions the two of us and worked on this book.
I read many psychological books, and there are many books in this regard that I read several times
Diversity in books was not as important as the depth of my readings were
Truly there are books that I don’t know how many times
I’ve read them and still I open some parts and read again
I was very interested in works by Hermann Hesse and books that have mystic
artistic and cultural aspects, books like Jean Christoph and so on. I’ve read them all.
What about music?
No, not music. Because I was raised in a family in which music was regarded as Haram
I didn’t have an ear for music but in a period when
I went to the nature to paint I started to play guitar
and I started going to classes by Abbas Mehr-pooya for a while to learn guitar
And this was in itself something extraordinary because in my family that was religious and
we didn’t even have a radio or television and music had no meaning, now I wanted to play guitar.
How I can establish proportion and balance between my personal and-
inner world and the outside world and their realities
sometimes is hard but in principle since I come from a social class in which
I was not approved much and I was only dependent on my own persistence in my development
clearly I could to some extent establish an equilibrium between an objective and
real life and a personal and artistic life and artistic imaginations and hallucinations
This issue was not always very easy
Many times a person in his own solitude has a special mood that according to Rumi
what kind of a feast is going on in your soul that by seeing your face
the world becomes, like the hands of a new bride, becomes joyful and colorful”,
and then coming out of the studio he faces realities
that disappoint him and bring him back to consciousness
And even today that I’m here with you, my feelings and
my life is a struggle between these two spaces.
Imagine Mr. Ali Faramarzi is sitting there. Ask him something.
From Ali Faramarzi? I’ll ask him “do you think you’ve become distant from your childhood?
What would you become if you weren’t a painter?
I would become a philosopher
We reach wisdom by observing.
“The unbelievable winning of Sufis are due to something else
otherwise research wouldn’t show anyone the path to realization”.
Part 08
Part 8
What does painting mean to you? What do you gain from it?
Man’s thoughts and personality are formed by means of images and words
It means that we picture some things in our mind and we interpret those images
for ourselves and give them meaning and we call them thoughts.
This is also in Logic, which I studied for a little while
Now there are people whose minds are stronger in forming images than words
they think more in terms of images rather than in words
Others think more in terms of words instead of images.
There are also a few others who have a balance between the two
These are people who can do both visual works as well as writing
Usually in our societies that writing is stronger than visual aspects there is this concept
that the understanding of the universe is merely obtained by the means of words
It means that philosophy exists in words as our poets are mostly our philosophers
and our philosophers are also poets,
and mankind’s relationship with himself and his relationship with the nature
and what surrounds him can be expressed and interpreted by means of words
This is because verbal culture is stronger in the East than the visual culture.
But from our point of view, people who do visual work this is not true
I personally believe more every day that mankind can relate to the universe
and understand it by mans of form, shape,
color, texture and any other visual element as much as a philosopher can do by means of words
But understanding this requires doing some studies, examination and experiencing.
When we were born and opened our eyes,
before becoming familiar with words we experienced color
smells, light and shadow, forms
We have known those around us by means of form not by words
Why do we see so many colorful images in our dreams
so many new worlds?
This shows that forms, shapes, images are institutionalized in the depth of our subconscious
and we give them composition in our dreams
and express with them our needs or understand from them
It is not true that the understanding of a painter
or a movie director is less or more limited than someone
in the domain of literature, an author, a poet or a philosopher
No. Even in our literature we have the discussion of observation
observant, glance and exchanging glances have been talked about numerous times
“Those without knowledge are astonished by our glances
, who I am is what I do, others should judge on their own”
This can be the answer to your question, isn’t it?
“Narrow-minded people look at the result; we are the observant of the garden”
It means that observing and witnessing is one of the most important channels
in relating to the universe and its nature and also of man’s relationship with himself
This is perhaps an important in its emotional and
mental aspect in which I’m spending my life.
Do you perceive art as a means to express a content
and attach a mission for it or you believe in art for art?
Today, I don’t see them as two separate things,
but I believe that even if we work with the concept of art for art
with the help of color and form and shape and
so on we are discovering certain angles of the universe
or we are
adding some angles to it that were not found prior to that.
Even if we want to think more symbolically
in terms of things that exist but have not been conceptualized,
they are in any case things that have not become a phenomenon
And they are invisible and it is the artist that in his search in this world of form and shape
will turn them into a phenomenon and make them visible and add something to the universe
In reality creates something
Now either there is a special meaning behind or there is no social content behind it
The mere nature of that search is also a content.
In my view, imagination
and fantasy is a picture that is formed in the mind of the human being.
That picture is interpreted by means of our habits, knowledge, traditions and our information,
that interpretation creates and forms a feeling in us
and that feeling is associated with a new feeling and
that feeling is again interpreted and this cycle continues
This is what we call fantasy.
We can express a part of this thought and imagination
Those who are able to express are usually called artists
But this does not happen only to artists
Everyone dream in their sleep.
Thinking and hallucination and imagining and fanaticizing belong to everyone
Artists are those who have learned to express them,
a corner of this fluid and vast and limitless universe
This is what Rumi calls “the box of intrinsic images
” He says that you are stuck in the box of intrinsic images
means that its nature is of images.
So they can express a part or a corner of that universe
Now either with words or with sounds or with images.
Do you think that an artist has a social role?
What constitutes our feelings during the day?
Naturally our economic, social, cultural, regional and geographical
as well as global conditions shape our feeling in addition to our relationship with ourselves
This is shown in artistic works and life
Without a doubt it has a social role.
Whatever is reflected from him in society plays its own role
However, according to Rumi,
“I’m not a flood that destroys your harvest in a second
I’m like a rain that falls down drop by drop and then you realize my effect”
Artistic works are not floods, they are rain drops that gradually
and during a long time have their effect in the society and play their social role.
What is the characteristic of an eternal art work in your view?
I think these are works that if they have been preserved
after years and they have stayed in the minds of the majority of people
then they must have signs or elements
they must carry something that is the reason behind their preservation
But there should be no doubt that one of the reasons behind this is
the lasting feeling that the artist should have while creating that piece.
Whatever makes a society lasting, whatever make the cultural works of a society
lasting is that everlasting feeling
Why have you created this responsibility that you have taken?
Because of that lasting feeling
This feeling created a cultural character from you
When this lasting feeling is harmed in the society,
the society becomes short lived, no lasting work is created inside it.
Now this can be studied to see why this lasting feeling is created
Why it exists in a certain condition and why it fades in another
When the lasting feeling exists in an artist, he can create lasting art works.
Part 09
What do you know about organizations like Saghakhaneh (Drinking fountain) or Ghandriz gallery?
I think the reason behind the formation of the Saghakhaneh school
and the rest is partly the two approaches that existed in the intellectual society of Iran
An approach to tradition due to socialistic thinking which was popular in the intellectual
and academic world of that time,
and another approach was the modern look at the new world which was needed to be expressed.
These two, along with each other created the Saghakhaneh school
I think that we haven’t understood the quality of these sufficiently
for example miniature is really a very deep art
but there is an unrealistic expectation from it
We think that miniature should talk about objective and daily issues
but miniature talks about that dimension of the human character
, when we make the man a one-dimensional creature
we see it that way. Miniature depicts that beautiful and romantic dimension of the human character
and talks about the metaphysical part of the human character
the emotional part, the beauty and beauty-loving part of the human character
Now this is very important. If this finds its right place
and our miniaturist do not doubt themselves
and know their right place, it can become a very rich art
A very special art
We cannot create national incidents by categorization and with instructions
even our religious painting was not well established
despite all the support it received and all the costs
We should allow those kind of humans to be created and to exist
and those people whatever emanates from them we should allow
We should allow the creation of a less ordered world in cultural fields
and I’m certain that it will create such fruitful spiritual spaces
We shouldn’t be scared of these issues, there is no need, the artist’s work is spiritual
cultural, there’s no reason to look at these issues with anger.
What animosity can it have.
What is your definition of the traditional art and modern art?
Traditions were mankind’s needs that because of repetition
became habits and during time habits become traditions These were man’s needs
Modern man is also responding to his needs and naturally creates its specific traditions
These are the continuation of each other,
each other’s extension and not in conflict with each other
Today, we make our own traditions
When I wake up in the morning and read newspaper on the internet
and go through social media, I’m doing a traditional act, I’m repeating a habit
In the past, this habit could have had the form of going to
traditional sport facility (zoorkhaneh) for someone
The shape and type has changed based on human’s needs
Now some traditions are more long term and more lasting
and give a more lasting feeling
so they are perceived as more traditional,
sometimes they are more short term and are perceived as a passing movement
Again conditions related to time and
place and history create these. Long-term and sho rt term is established by conditions
In the internet era, with this speed and
the explosion of information we cannot expect popular traditions of past generations.
This is a historical incident that has been created and has its own tradition
But this tradition has a different definition than the traditions of our forefathers
Our problem is with these definitions.
This has its own tradition and the other one its own
Our problem is that we want to compare that definition
with this one and so won’t have the same outcome for us
Video art and performance
and those new expressional methods are the result of that tradition we talked about
It means that needs are creating new expressional
instruments that are the necessities of our time
These should be accepted and received
although we have the movie industry
photography and literature, human being due the problems he’s struggling with,
needs more instruments
All these social media need more instruments
And these different artistic forms are new expressional methods that can express social
cultural and philosophical issues very concisely.
Last week I was invited to one of these performances at the Museum of Modern Art
believe me that I was thinking that philosophy has been embodied
Each of us has a performance world,
the objectivity that was taking place there had become a world to me
Then the artist suggested to include the sound of the generator
from outside into our program
as well as the warning of the Museum’s staff not to come close to art works
If You accept the entire objectivity of the present moment,
it is a philosophical incident, it is an objective world
It is breaking up all the conditions in which an art work
should have happened in the past
Again this can be a fragile philosophical movement, a social movement
Questioning all traditions with one move
It is important how we receive it. These should be reviewed
should be expressed so that our generation that may have
a sort of resistance toward them as well as the new generation
should understand what instruments it is acquiring and how useful they are.
What is painting? Painting is a tool for expressing
so is literature, cinema. These are all open worlds whether we want or not
whether we have prejudice or if we accept them
These continue living.
“Fall in love before the world comes to an end,
or you haven’t understood the meaning of the universe”
Or Rumi says:
“All your restlessness comes from your yearning for the calm”
it means that you want to be close to tradition
become a restless lover so that you find calm and peace.”
Tell us about the relationship between modernity and national identity?
And what was the effect of globalization on our national identity?
The more we discuss qualitatively about national identity
and the more we allow this discussion to be developed in the society without fear and selection
we will naturally help give it more depth.
And this can help to a large extent the positive features of our identity
Uor identity can have both negative as well as positive aspects
Prejudice on any of them is just a miscalculation.
Those positive aspects that are useful today for a peaceful
and productive life that builds the future should be taken care of
including producers, capitalists and investors who have a sense of nationalism
If this characteristic exists in a human being
he will be useful for its society in any situation
Well this is a culture, it cannot be taught at the university
It should take place
How does a culture take shape?
It takes place by flowing and extending, not by orders or publicity
or a learning stick
If we still worry about building our culture
we should look at our instruments to see whether they work well
or why they don’t work. That is important.
We have cinema, television, media, this vast world of internet
Why should we worry about culture?
Why shouldn’t we make positive and constructive use of these instruments,
reassuring and calming uses for the society?
An instrument that injects anxiety becomes repulsive
This is a psychological principle
When it becomes culture, whether I’m an artist or a producer
or a worker or have any other task in the society
that will exist in me and there will be no need for learning
It is present in me
It chooses its goals on its own and will guide me towards those goals
What really matters is the culture and
we should not be afraid of globalization or any other incident
What can we do facing this flood,
whether we are scared or not?
If it is inevitable, then we should take its positive points
as much as we can and at the same time study its defects
and remind them and understand them
If we have equipped our young generation if they go to any corner of the world
, it is proven during the past 30 years that they will stay equipped
The opposite is true as well
If they are unequipped with that personal emotional culture,
we won’t be able to straighten this crooked piece of wood
We should give importance to the culture and
we should let the society breath freely in its culture
we shouldn’t be afraid so much and we shouldn’t observe with a suspicious look.
Where is mankind going in this world of internet and social media?
I think that the speed of today’s world is not proportionate to human’s capacity
In any case we are a reality, we are an objectivity
a physical being. We are not eternity.
We are made up of flesh and blood
Our psychological capacities are also limited by physics
by material, that is why we cannot understand the metaphysical world
Because we want to look at metaphysics from within a physical world
I believe that the world of information has become
an illness and despite the fact that we defend all its positive points
it is beyond mankind’s physical ability and this had its side effects and still has and will have
One of the reasons behind all the atrocities that take place around the world
comes from the world of information and I’m worried
I hope someday mankind will revise everything and
looks at its inner goals and his emotional incentives
I’m also optimist that the world of science
and physics is finding many of the answers
and if this positive part of the science can
take over the speed and aggression that exists in the world today
it can change many things.
Part 10
What is your opinion regarding Tehran Auction?
In my opinion, since other public events in the field
of visual arts are inactive and closed in Iran
such as expos and biennales
Tehran Auction has become too important without any reason.
Another reason is that it is new, and it has 4-5 years of background
Auction is not a cultural place and
having cultural expectations of a place that is auctioning a sofa is meaningless
The person wants to sell his/her belonging
From a place where money and capital is being circulated there can no cultural expectations
An auction is an auction
Why are we looking at an economic event with a moral perspective?
The reason is that other fields are empty
I told this to the visual responsible of the Museum of Modern Art
to start a biennale and lower the pointless pressure on something which has no logic
But biennale is a place where the work is evaluated in terms of its artistic values
it is awarded and given points, it is introduced
When such an event does not occur in this country
because there is a conflict between Ershad and Painters Association for interfering in this matte
one says that I’ll sponsor and the other says no I’ll bring the artist
so when this is not active, naturally we have moral expectations from the Auction
You have to go see these galleries to see what number of works
are being sold in proportion to the number that is being exhibited
Economy of art has not been established yet
I don’t talk about the field of cinema, I’ talking about the field of painting
So when there is no background for it, this is exactly what you’re saying.
Auction is a place where there is competition, economic competition
not intellectual and substance competition
Therefore, the price goes up. We should see why
The reason is that the amount paid for buying art work is not sufficient for the number of works
This is the problem of the society.
What do your exhibitions teach you?
It teaches me that after every exhibition I should start another period
Another movement. For example
my last year’s exhibition at Seyhoun gallery
is very different from what I’m doing now in this period of “Attack”
Those were my “City” periods and I thought
this is enough and I started “Desert” periods which led to the period of “Attack”
I want the piece to be such that it can keep the viewer in front of itself
and that the viewer can relate to it
To me this is success, and it is very important for me when this happens.
What is your reaction to negative criticism?
In principle, every criticism is bitter at first.
But they become fruitful and the bitterness gives result more than compliments
And without being conscious about it,
while working you realize that the bitterness is affecting your work
. It is the same in teaching,
meaning that a teacher in my view should both encourage and reprimand at the same time
Because reprimands stay in the pupil’s mind forever
and results in the warning stay with the art student
This is the same with criticism It is in reality a warning
now the criticism can be right or some part of it can be right and some part of it can be illogical
But criticism is always a warning and leads the person to revise everything in himself.
Man, is his works, is his view of his works, in his attachment to his works
so one advantage is that it lowers our attachment to the work. This is very important
I believe that the artist should not be very attached to his works
otherwise he would repeat himself
One of the elements we lack in our society today is review
Maybe this is true for the entire world.
Some people believe that the entire world has gone towards this path
short writings in the virtual world has taken the place of artistic review
Everyone asks why we do not have art review,
or why our critics are not truly critic as they should be?
Everyone is giving compliments to one another and praise each other in some way
An atmosphere is formed in the society that the cultural class feels to be at minority
Now if you and I see ourselves at minority and if I criticize your work, wouldn’t it be self-flagellation?
No one was ready to do this self-flagellation.
We all preferred to keep ourselves safe and keep our friends,
why do you want to criticize the other person in this situation? Let us keep our status
. Why did we think this way?
Because we felt to be at minority. So no review was produced
Even if something was written, it was merely praise and admiration
To maintain and strengthen this minority.
What was the best advice you’ve ever received?
I think that in the process of the artistic work I should refer to myself
and I honestly think that mostly this poem from Hafiz
has been important in this regard and opened my way
Of course I tried, I don’t know how much I’ve been successful:
“Try with honesty so that the sun will be born from your breath”
This is an important saying. I hope it comes true, but I don’t know.
Part 11
Difference between the Three Generations
The generation from the 1340s, are a generation that had that possibility
capacity and the space to make themselves known and due to having that atmosphere in those days
they were able to have certain experiences and
understand the modern world for the first time and try to use that in their works.
Moreover, in the same period, socialist tendencies were very popular among intellectuals
which pushed them to pay attention to the lives of lower classes
As a result, they were struggling between two ends
between staying loyal to the lower class of the society
and the struggle that the modern and Western world had created
They were successful in finding methods that while looking at the tradition of the society
and what meant tradition for the majority of the society
they could build a bridge between that and the modern world
And create something that has the features of art works of the 40s
meaning that we see both traditional tendencies
and making use of traditions which had roots in Socialism
as well as modernizing that tradition that had a look at the modern and Western world
So it became a method for itself.
The second generations, which is our generation
is a wasted generation that due to the conditions
of post Revolution and then war and the conditions in its aftermath
they were less included
While it should be said that they were
part of the most honorable of all since they were obliged to learn for years
But compared to the hardship they endured and their teaching and learning
they were not seen and they weren’t taken care of
And when politics dictated that the artist should now be seen,
since those who wanted to implement this in the society
were themselves part of the young new money generation
they paid attention to the young generation of our visual artists because
they wanted to say that we are no less than the modern progressive world
So unfortunately this was an injustice towards the middle generation
and they preferred less to see the middle generation and in fact they ignored it on purpose
But in the meantime another unfavorable incident happened
which the middle generation itself, and during these years the socio-political structure of the country
convinced them that they have no right and as a result they didn’t believe
and still don’t that they have any right in the visual art of this country,
they don’t have the right to be seen
And even today, when you look at books on art history that are being written
you can clearly see these two parts
one, the part that is related to the 40s,
and the second part is the one that jumps over the middle generation
and lands in front of the modern young generation that are being supported
Today, if you go to any gallery they will tell you
that you are part of the senior generation and we prefer to work with the young generation
And incidentally, worse than that they are producing art history in line with their own goals
which if you look at you can see that a 30 years is missing
I’ve written about this several times,
but fortunately since I never receive any response these writings are blown by the wind
There is no answer that during the recent 30 years
has Iran’s painting been sleeping?
Has there only been a generation of the 40s and a young new generation?
From where did this young generation learn to paint?
The interesting thing is that they say that since they were more involved in teaching
as a result they are less artist. So here we can say that teaching is a negative point
Well it’s ok. Now tell me which famous artist from the 40s did not teach?
Did not teach at the universities?
How come all the generation of the 40s are proud to have been professors?
re proud to have been professors?
Why has it been credit back then?
But this is not the reason.
The reason is that economic needs
necessitate that they should not be seen
The basis for this is two things:
One, being from a new money class and pretending to be modern and up to date,
and second, economic needs of a group of new money galleries
Because works of a young artist is cheaper and is well sold
so they work on them to gain economic profit
And another advantage is that they can tell the modern
world outside that see how much we’ve become modern
don’t think we are old-fashioned and backwards
And books they publish is in the same genre
My generation, if they were really interested in art,
they were also very persistent and practiced arduously
they had a lot of patience, and we would never think of exhibiting our works
exhibiting wasn’t the main issue in art
Naturally, for us the main thing was learning, experiencing and working more than anything
Today’s generation is a short-term generation, a less patient generation
I think everything should be very short and fast
like the internet, Facebook and the like
everything has become short and requires a short period
As a result, learning has become the same
I remember that when I was first teaching
almost 30 years ago,
a student would do drawing for more than a year and a half and would continue patiently
and they would get good results
But nowadays, after three months they become impatient,
it means that they don’t have the patience
continuity and practices that existed in that generation
and the gratitude they had is seen much less now
While we, as people who have been teaching for 40 years
what we teach now compared to that time is incomparable
in terms of maturity and artistic experience
In my own case it is not comparable
However, the more it has been added to in terms of quality
the more it has declined in terms of time and quantity,
and this generation has become less patient and they are always in a rush
I think this poem belongs to Saadi that says:
” For a wise artist, two lifetimes should there be,
so that he spends one in gaining experience
-and the other in using those experiences in his work.”
who are enjoying from the results of the experiences
of that middle generation who has learned them during 40 years,
but most of them without any gratitude and loyalty, try to say that they were self-taught
We are all enjoying our own personal experiences
In our development
While they have been using the fruits of all the efforts
that the middle generation have endured for 40 years
and fortunately the young generation both in terms of quantity
although they are not in proportion to those who enter universities
but due to the population growth they are numerous
and in terms of quality which is a vast discussion and there is a large spectrum
time should show and one index is that we should
see among this young generation how many of them have continuity
One of the conditions is being continuous
and we should see that in them
We know biennales that have awarded some of these
new comers and none of them pursue their artistic work
I said this so that it stays in the history.
Part 12
Teaching and learning the art
Educational methods in the past had some qualities that were very
useful in some aspects
One, the relationship between the professor and the student could be formed
and the other was more attention to patience and practice and technique which were very useful
because it would become the everlasting backbone of the artist
Patience was very important, as well as humility and using the experiences of elders
I usually say this at my class that every author reads other author’s books
every poet reads others poets’ poetry
just because he is a poet he wouldn’t ignore other people’s poetry
So why shouldn’t an artist, a painter
experience older painter’s knowledge
A one-way prejudice has been formed regarding copying art works
Copying other art works is in reality understanding an experience
that for instance an artist has gained within 40-50 years’ period and now by copying
I can comprehend and appreciate a part of that experience
The rpoblem is becoming a copyist, not the copying itself.
The mind of a copyist is not creative
but understanding, studying and analyzing other people’s experience
is what existed in older systems
But they also had their own weaknesses
They wouldn’t let the art student go much farther from that circle
and they would set the atmosphere
in a way that the student would be condemned to repeat in that space
This was their weakness.
Academic education has the advantage that allows research
flying, examining various methods and paths
But their technical backing is not adequate
What they teach less is patience, modesty, and practice
What is taught today as principles of arts
and visual principles in academic centers and universities
in the past a painter should have worked for years and gain experience to obtain them
understand them and find out about its problems.
Today, all this has become systematic and classified and is taught at the universities
But that part about practice and experiencing the learnings of older masters is absent
These two together can create a useful harmony.
What is your opinion regarding drawing and its role in creating an artist?
Firstly, a sort of repulsion and fear vis a vis drawing has occurred in the country
People think that drawing is a very difficult and strange task and
learning it is very complex and hard
An important part of this problem is related to professors who teach drawing
The reason is that for example today they say
teaching art should not be systematic but should be from here and there
while in my opinion it should be systematic up to
a certain level and the art student should definitely pass those levels.
But regarding drawing itself, let me talk about drawing from my own definition
When you minimize color, it will be called drawing
So it is not something separated from painting
Firstly, in drawing the subject of volume form and texture is discussed
The first argument is regarding “form”. Without drawing
how can we understand form
How can we achieve the depth of our research in the world of volume?
In painting, volume means light and shadow
So now without understanding light and darkness
or light and shadow how do we want to comprehend
the argument of volume that has dominated the visual world
And textures …. These are all tools for expression
It is true that today printing and
other instruments are helping you to color a shape without drawing it
But the main argument is the art piece itself
it is our understanding of the universe
Without having practical relations with
our universe, the world of shape, form, color, volume, light and shadow, texture
then how can we obtain a deep and natural expression of the universe
Now this is why working periods are becoming shorter
One of the reasons behind the fact that students after
finishing their work periods won’t continue their work
is that the depth of their comprehension of the visual world is shallow
Instead of thinking about their relation with the universe
the relation between their inner world and the universe,
they think about having exhibitions.
A group of experts in this domain, the domain of teaching art in academia
are a group that believe that what is really taking place at the
universities is the “grass” there They use this expression
This means that the atmosphere in which young people and students are inside
the field trips they take part, art museums they visit and exhibitions
arguments that take place, and memories that occur
outside the academic art classes are called the university’s grass
This is an important part of the artistic life and character of
the student in this fields
which is created by these spaces
So if those spaces are taken from the student,
then the incident of grass will not happen
and will be limited to what the professor will teach at the class
University system works in this way, when each semester is over professor will be changed
More traditional and older methods, in my view,
create a depth and maturity in the character of the student that allows him to
learn from the professor’s character
One of the problems that result from short-term periods
is that at the end of the academic years
the student will be perplexed,
because a new professor comes to the classroom with different viewpoints
and they teach with different criteria in approving or refusing the works
Therefore, more than what they learn at an art class, they learn from the relationships
the relation between student and professor, relation between students with each other
and the atmosphere in which they are placed in academic environments.
Now if a number of young students are sitting in front of you, what would you tell them?
Don’t lose hope and don’t get disappointed in yourselves
This is the reality.
I believe that human capabilities are much more than what he is aware of
The important thing is to turn “I can’t” into “I can” in his own mind
and teaching is nothing but changing the
“I can’t” into “I can”. By “I can”
By “I can” we don’t mean having an illusion, because we have two types:
one that is sick and is not in proportion to the action, and the other one that is healthy
and the “I can” is together with patience and practice
If this “I can’t” is changed in to “I can” in a person
I believe that he can achieve many things beyond his imagination.
Thank you.
I thank you.