Niloofar Ghaderinejad
Audio of the Entire Interview
Interview Transcript
Part 01
(Part I: Childhood, Vocational School, University)
I was born in 1957 in Tehran in a middle-class family with a pharmacist father and a household mother.
I was interested in painting since I can remember myself and I was working with pen and paper all the time.
Even at school, I used to paint at the side of my books rather than listening to the teacher.
I was daydreaming all the time. I saw myself in places. I don’t even know if it was real. I kept imagining things.
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What I recall from my childhood was an abandoned warehouse in which I used to play all the time.
There was a reticular wall that I used to climb, because I was short at that time, I watched many different things such as cats and men with long beard like the dervish.
When I grew up, I had dreams which happened in reality. I had a symbolic dream of my life in the future which had a scenario from the beginning to the end. Now they are happening in my real life.
It was all about the dreams that I used to paint, like the “heaven and hell” I have painted. It was an impression of Durer paintings in Dante book I had at school. Years later, I studied “Book of Arda Viraf” which was older than Dante and I realized how much they ae similar to each other with a1000-year time distance in picturing heaven, hell and limbo that was really interesting for me.
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When I grew older, my parents and one of my teachers, who taught painting at school, suggested me to attend vocational school because of my interest. My older sister also studied Sculpture at the University of Fine Arts and so I attended Behzad vocational school and I kind of blossomed there! I had a very hard time at high school and I felt fulfilled at that time. I started serious painting. I fulfilled perspective and anatomy, which were quite important subjects that must be included in the syllabus even today. Mr Jafari and Mr Gholam Hossein Nami and Mr Halati (Anatomy) were our instructors there.
I always sneaked into places with poor or mediocre people. Places like coffeehouses which I used to hate. I spent much time in places where I could see weird people around. Like this Hossein-Agha coffeehouse with addicts in there and it was very dangerous. However, I went there to draw, and I continued drawing by the time I was at the university.
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When a person wants to sort weird people, he/she would be in trouble anyway. Like the time I was in Bandar-Abbas bazar when I followed a weird-looking man with colored string around him to draw. He then followed me and hit me with a stick until the police arrived.
All those hours were worthy and helpful. Still, life is too complicated. There were times I, like anybody else, have been close to fall, but what preserved me wholeheartedly was painting. It doesn’t let you fall.
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I attended University of Fine Arts in 1976 before the social upheavals. The students were moved by the events. Many of us were working at that time such as, Masoud Sadedin and Ahmad Aminnazar, Seroj Barseghian, Mansour Tabibzadeh who were in my class and continued their work afterwards. I began my serious work back then. Mr Alkhas taught us drawing during the first years which greatly impressed me. During the third year, Mr Alkhas and I started teaching hundreds of students at night-schools and I learned a lot from him. His drawing classes were amazing. I used to draw on the painting easel and that was when he first encountered my work. He entered the studio and asked: ”whose work is this?” “It is my work.” I replied. And then he advised me not to work on the stool and work on the paper instead. We continued our work together for many years afterwards. Ms Behjat Sadr, Ms Mohasses, Mr Mohsen Vaziri, and Ms Kouban were our instructors.
Because I was very interested in human figures since childhood, I was attracted to the work of Alkhas. He emphasized on figures and he used to draw mental figures. I started learning from him and it was quite fruitful. I worked and practiced a lot. And it helped me indeed.
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Mr Alkhas told us to present our project sooner due to the Cultural Revolution. Masoud Sadedin and I, then started working together. I worked on the murals which were greatly accepted. Together with Mr Alkhas and Mr Sadedin, I worked on 2 or 3 walls after the revolution.
My sweet memories were during the time I was painting. Those hours are the best time of my life. Like the time I was working in Labor’s Societies and on the murals, when we were working together, painting their portraits on the wall while they were there, and we were kind of friends back then. Those days were the best days of my life, because I was painting and I was in touch with the ones I really liked at the same time.
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Part 02
Part II (University and Afterwards)
I think Mr Alkhas inspired the students at that time. Because they were all attracted to work on the figures due to the situation. Alkhas had a multi-aspect character. He was knowledgeable in many different fields and he could transfer his knowledge. His classes were quite lively and desirable, full of stories, poems and laughter. He told us painting is a curve in which one rises to the top at the beginning and then continues on a line, standing still. If you stay at that line, if you quit and do not go on, then you will fall behind and you will be gone. Instead, don’t leave. Paint hands, feet, your friends’ portraits, but don’t quit. If you go on like this, the next time you will rise higher and you will never fall. I always remembered what he said.
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I perfectly learned drawing from him. I learned to stay strong on that curve he once mentioned. To constantly work and not quit. And I learned not to make an idol from anyone and don’t get exhausted, but learn when I’m teaching. That was his way of teaching hundreds of students in the amphy-theatre after four yours. Masoud Sadedin and I felt worn out but Alkhas kept going by joking, entertaining and sometimes even swearing to get rid of exhaustion. I don’t think Alkhas had a school. I’d rather believe it was a method for living and working altogether which was quite practical for the youth. Even now when I use that method, I can see their progress. For many years I taught children at different schools without getting paid. I believed it is very effective to teach the kids from the very beginning. I taught drawing to the handicaps in Komak hospital. It was really interesting for me because there was a 16-17 year-old child who held the pen with his/her mouth and drew amazing pictures from the hospital that were also cold and bitter. I had such experiences in specific places.
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My life changed after the university because I was married by then. During this time, I drew the book “Kurdish Legends” by Ali Ashraf Darvishian. I didn’t stop working at that time. It was just a bit slower back then.
It was a hard time during the war because my husband was working as a musician and I was a painter, there was financial pressures. I had drawing with bold expressive aspects from that time.
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I moved towards painting but at the same time, sculpture was very important to me. I was very much inspired by Rodin, Michelangelo, and the recent artworks from 16 and 18 century in particular.
What artwork you would have chosen for yourself?
Rodin’s Gates of Hell which he couldn’t finish at last and died. It’s extra-ordinary.
Part 03
Part III (Periods of Work)
My first exhibition was a duo with Masoud Sadedin in Obeid Hall of University of Fine Arts. I worked the Zaar ceremony, and he had drawings of Bandar-Abbas passengers. We had printed the drawings and were giving them to people freely. My works were all expressionist during the time of university.
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I was very much interested in unusual places such as psychiatric hospitals I worked in. Or I visited them and drew them later. I liked to go to Shahr-e No at that time but I couldn’t. I was attracted to the types back then. Sometime later, I tried to get close to nature with oil painting technique. I worked on portraits very close to reality and still life to learn about colors.
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Gradually my attitude changed. Years after the war, I worked on the myths. Things that were happening around me made me wonder how human could be responsible for such catastrophe. It was then I thought about the early humans which existed in the myths. As if the contradiction existed from the very beginning. I think war had a leading role. Still, the humanistic aspects never changed in me. It was just the frame. When I read the book of Arda Viraf which was very close to Dante that I read at school, it directed me very much towards painting. I visited Persepolis and I was very inspired by the atmosphere and the reliefs and the mythical aspects showed up in my work. I either have built the myths or used the ancient ones existed along with humanistic aspects. I began to focus on visual elements after that, mainly because I was growing older, felt calmer and more detailed on composition, texture and lines.
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I started working on collage for some reason. I was working on realism and then I decided to break the spaces in order to get out of that. It wasn’t until the time that one of my work about woman, about which I felt special, that I decided to cut my pallet in pieces and then stick it to my canvas. Because the closest thing to a painter is the pallet and you keep it close to your heart which is full of senses and emotions. So I cut it in pieces to show that a part of me is being torn. I collaged it and felt I could break
Part 04
Part IV (Features of the Works I)
Because of the strong feelings and social upheavals, my works have been expressive when I was younger. It gradually changed afterwards. I felt calm. Rich texts such as Shakespeare and Nima Yooshij poems greatly influenced me. They elevated me and I did not notice insignificant matters around me. It made me focus more on the visual elements.
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Again, in a period of my life the mythical stories engaged me and I began to paint with acrylic at that time. But they are stronger in drawing because I was a drawer in the first place. My touches and the colors I use might not be that bold in painting in comparison with drawing. I can say my work is a combination of painting and drawing. I have applied the medium and mixed-media and I tried to understand the texture.
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I think the mythical stories before Zoroastrians are actually symbols of our land. I’m not certain how well I can apply them in my works. Some of my works include such elements. A Peacock’s feather resembles my country, although it is not available in daily life like it is in Australia. But I saw it once which was a symbol of beauty and so it entered into my work. When I’d like to paint the portrait of a saint, a symbol of the beauty of a human being, I would look at the reliefs and Persian sculptures to work on.
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I might have considered a myth as a symbol, such as the god of wind, Vayv, when I encountered some people and then I realized they are changed. Just like what the essence of this god indicated. All my works has their stories regarding the inspirations I have had.
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I would love to show the contradictions such as good and evil in my works. That is why I work on diptychs more; such as minotaur, a Greek myth, original Persian myths. I feel there is a contradiction in the depth of each human being. My recent work which was a wolf on the shoulder of a human resembles the fact that the human’s animality has been always a burden and it will remain until the human exist. This, is my concern. As for Zurvan, the god of infinite time, who gives birth to a twin brother; the good (Spendārmad) and evil (Ahriman). The later was born earlier because of a doubtful moment which I don’t know why. But I think the main tendency of human is towards the evil. The fact that one must be in control of his/her life and to develop the next generation as a good human being is very important.
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I woke up in the morning and I felt this world, this country and here, Tehran is suspended! I asked myself how would it continue its life? How is everything in progress? People go to work while ISIS is busy everywhere. It was the time I saw the slaughtered heads on the net. Then I started painting a woman, symbolizing peace, power, and balance along with all the myths I have tattooed on her body which is her history now that tattoo is a fashion. I painted a peachok feather which symbolized the beauty in our world. In the background, though, I have painted the truth in grey, the truth about wars and animality of a human. This human figure which is believed to be in balance is still suspended, not knowing where she stands. It is because I’m seeing everything in alteration accompanied by a cooperation. But there seems no certainty. There is an imbalance in balance itself. Like the square works I have. I paint in square to show balance. Like the love I see today. It is as if they do not have a face and they are not actually who they are; wearing masks and having tattoos. As if the human is questioning his/her creation, tending to dehumanize himself/herself by sharping his ears and tattooing. This is one of the subjects that I’m always working on.
Part 05
Part V (Features of the works II)
Basically, I work based on my imaginations. Unlike many others, I do not work from models or photos. Not all subjects appear the same way in my mind. I was watching a clip in which this scene appeared but then something came into my mind which was not relevant to that clip at all. It was so strong that I immediately painted it on canvas without any drawing. I thought about painting a heartbreak because love nowadays leads to failure. I created an imbalance in the square-frame of the canvas and I surpassed the frame. Then I concentrated on painting other figures which crossed my mind. The woman I drew was nude at first but then I covered her body and in the end I put a mask on her face. Because she didn’t want to be herself. She wanted to change such as plastic surgeries today. I wanted to show the fall which I showed in her figure. To me, the red shoe is the lonely partner which is meaningful. The detailed necklace I saw in that clip. These are the things that I encounter on a daily basis. The only figure I worked from a photo is European singer in whom I tended to show addiction and ecstasy, as if he is getting solved in that smoke of that cigar or anything that is. And the tattoos he is using to escape from his humanity. I show the failure of love like this or like another work, Leyli and Majnun, I put the canvas up and down and then added the torn pallet to it in the end.
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it depends on how the idea come to my mind. Sometimes, I first etude and then start working. Sometimes the subject is so important that I have to paint on the canvas directly mainly because drawing beforehand decrease my expression. That is why I have to conquer the canvas to create what I want. Completion is very important. Years ago, I could have finished a work over night for an exhibition. But gradually I got more sensitive. I would not feel the work is done until it attracts me enough and I keep working on till I get the composition it otherwise. I would stop by the time my work would be hurt if I add or eliminate something in the work which is the hardest moment for me because it is started with excitement and eventually the composition and visual elements needs to be strengthened. It might be hard to continue working by this time. I sometime feel I cannot work on a painting anymore, that is when I leave it for months and then I start working on it so it gets somewhere. There are times I even cover the painting in a way that the first picture is totally gone.
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I began to think about working on collages or captivated people, but I didn’t. It is not something I think about or plan. It must happen spontaneously and it develops gradually. There used to be fewer spaces in my paintings. Now I use the canvas to leave more (unpainted) bright spaces, applying more (negative) spaces.
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I work when I’m pretty excited. There is movement in my works, the movement of the brush. I even dream of figures moving. I try to bring a rhythm to my lines and the figures. As if they are changing all the time. I do not rub; I do not like it. I’d like my touches to remain. Like when I keep the handwritings of the people I like. To me, it is valuable; the sense that person had while writing is quite precious for me. that is why I think I’d better keep my touches.
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Part 06
Part VI (Teaching Art)
I think the art education system is not acceptable either at universities or at schools. I’ve heard they are eliminating the subjects. I have worked with children since kindergarten and I know they would be lovingly familiar with art when they grow older even if they do not study it as their majors. It is very important. Our problem is that ordinary people cannot know about art because of the system. Like classical music, if one does not know about it, there would be no perspective ahead, but rather it gets boring. I believe all of us should work together to get paintings on the walls of the city. I recently heard about a city in Mexico which crime rate was decreased by painting the city. It glows from far and the atmosphere is much more tender. It would be great if we could use the walls and paint them. There must be god teachers at kindergartens and pre-university to work with students. Europeans take their children to the museums and talk about Picasso’s works while deep down, we don’t know art well. Not even artists. Because it is something that must be taught during childhood. We could join the history of art if it is fulfilled. There is a gap here in between, which I don’t know how it must be filled. This gap is distant from the history of art because we moved from the first step to the last. It must be filled by hard work and activities and the quantity of people. I believe the quantity affects the quality after all. The more people know about art, the better. Teaching art at universities and vocational schools are not well. Because the instructors are not much payed and/or they would be easily fired because they do not have their Master’s degree. We had our Bachelors degrees of our own time and they tell us to leave regardless of our experiences and only because we do not have our Master’s degrees. While those with MA degrees, are not much experienced and they cannot teach well. I faced such problem while I was teaching at the university.
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I believe drawing is one of the most important elements in visual arts. I think even a mathematician or a lawyer must draw because one can dominate the surrounding and sees the world through a different perspective and therefore, discover many things easier. Likewise, it is important for a drawer to know math, geometry, and perspective. They must be taught altogether I believe. Some think drawing is not much significant but for someone whose work is abstract, it is important to place the paint in the composition and so drawing is a necessity. It even affects the mentality of people. I’ve been teaching for thirty years and I know a person who got back to life from committing suicide and experiences a happy life. Through Alkhas’s drawing method, which I also use, one can find himself/herself in the crowd; we combine the figures inside each other and ask the students to try to take one outside. Drawing is specifically fruitful for those with crowded and disorganized minds to find themselves. They practically learn how to do that. This is how I can manage to work along with many other tasks I have to fulfil and many other difficulties in life. That I’ve leant from drawing and my students agree.
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- What would you suggest for those who like to reach a status like yours?
- Persistence, love and hard work is my answer. I would not tell them talent. I’ve seen many people who were not talented but they could hold an exhibition through hard work and love.
Part 07
Part VII (Painting and Life)
I have had many emotional struggles. I don’t know what might have happened if painting was not part of my life. Each person has many phases in life that cannot be told and would be buried with him/her eventually, but in the painting some things could be understood about the condition of the artist.
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I’ve painted myself in pieces in my works. I had to be a mother, a wife, a daughter to my mother, a sister, once I had to be calm, and in all these situations and even at the edge of falling, one must not let go of painting. This is what I tell my students and women in particular. Because they have many different tasks to do in a third-world-country. We must be very hard working to be an intellect and an artist, and preserve our works and ourselves at the same time.
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I am a turtle-pace type of person. Some would destruct and begin from scratch. I moved like a turtle, but I moved forward. I know it myself that I have progressed. There were no sudden changes on my works and my perspective. I am the same person with the same characteristics. Yet, I am more focused on the visual elements and visual arts. I believe I can still work on painting regardless of many other categories and it is still valuable to concentrate on.
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Three days a week I teach, and two days a week I paint at my studio. I think when I’m not working. I think about what I might paint at night and during the day while I’m doing the dishes or cook. Like a spark, I even sometimes saw a thing. My relations, whether with people or in the society, makes me paint. When I talk to a friend that makes me feel good deep inside, I would create a painting for sure. And because I paint my mind, it might be similar to that person. I’m intimate with painting, all the time. What you call imagination, might be the thoughts a painter has before painting. All painters have such feelings I think. Their imaginations and dreams are same as their lives. This is how I am. I think about painting at night and I elaborate on it during the day. I’m living with it all the time. I think its an effective work that stick to people’s minds more than a week. I keep asking people how much my works influenced them? Some say I was thinking about it for a week. It must be influential or shocking you know. I consider that work, an artwork. As for imagination, I’m always imagining things about my works and not about my personal life at all. I’m totally a traditional person such as the previous generation. But I consider myself modern in my work.
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There is a narrow line between creativity and the thoughts, which might even seems irrational. Creativity and insanity are close. Some insane thoughts sometime cross my mind and I apply them and they turn out well, such as “21 grams”. The hummingbird might seem stupid in a work at first, but then it turns out well by more work afterwards. I don’t say it’s a good thing now, I mean one can do it. There is a narrow line.
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Traditional art is for those who would like to work on the identity of their country. If the occurrences of the third-world countries are passed through the filter of painting and the images are paint on the canvases, I think there would be many great artworks. There is no need to work on the identity believe. When a Persian painter paints even an abstract painting, the touches speak for themselves regardless of the astern or mainly Persian elements. That line is full of senses. I thought about it long ago and even tried to work but did not like it at all. I realized I need to free my mind and use elements which excite me in my own life, such as the hummingbird I’ve mentioned. To me, calligraphy is something abstract. I don’t understand what is the role of writing and I cannot call it an independent art. Regarding it as a texture, it could be considered an abstract painting. Same as Saqakhaneh; I don’t understand the injection of Iranian identity to a work. An artist could use the things that excites him/her. I paint a shoe, cigarette butts, cards, locks or other things. It cannot be separated from painting as a school. I don’t get it. In a painting, the composition, the expressiveness and the use of colors must be considered regardless of the elements. It’s good if the elements are settled. I believe it’s better to consider it internationally. What is the issue of humans these days?
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- What do you learn from the exhibitions?
- To me, they are like cases; when one closes another opens. The connection of people are very important to me. It is influential. Because I do not paint mainly for a specific class. I’d like people to understand my work. I always thought where to move so everybody can understand my work. I listen to them carefully and I always learnt something from what they say.
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- What is the secret of your success?
- I think it is love. I have given love to painting, to my husband and to my son and to those around me. I gave them positive energy. I didn’t hurt anybody. My students love me. they wait for my class. The classes are full because I try to be nice and positive. They like working with me.
* “Yād”, a Poem by Nimā Yooshij
‘When a day passes,
anything would pass by that day, they say
It’s a dream, what life does, anyway
Which one mustn’t recall,
Cheerless one’s mind unreasonably, they resay
Despite people’s nonsense,
Before my eyes, though
none passes without grief
I picture its image,
that day I recall..”