Kioumars Kiyasat
Audio of the Entire Interview
Interview Transcript
Part 01
As far as my identity card shows, I was born on February 5, 1958. It was a very difficult day, both politically and in terms of cold.
But I have an idea of that hard winter, in my opinion, Tabriz has always shown Tabriz in the statistics, the snow and the alleys that were there and could not be seen here and there
It was a very difficult time, I think it is after the nationalization of oil that the political situation has changed a bit, but it is a good start.
My father had a printing house and he was a painter, he was an engraver, he started as a worker and he had a printing house and one or two workers
I remember as a child, as soon as we sat under a chair, he was painting for me
He would bring a notebook and draw a picture, and then they would fall into my hands, and I would paint them.
It would fall a bit and I would draw again, Yahoo would see I drew 50 of them similar, now some of them would change
Our blood was oil paintings, it was watercolor work, my father was very talented
Because he was an intellectual with that talent at that time
My mother was a housewife, she was not much of an artist, she had the same disagreement with my father
The reward was, our parents’ war and our despair, they had very different differences in terms of their feelings.
When I was 5-6 years old, I went to the printing house, I remember that time it was a progress magazine that was coming
I also saw Tawfiq magazine, with issues of oil nationalization and these and its cartoons
In any case, I owe the painting to my father from the beginning, it started with my father
I had a grandmother with whom I was mostly castrated until 1333, when she passed away
When he left, my primary school started, I remember from the first days that my paintings were presented
I had love and affection, in a school that was in the most remote place and in a desert environment.
There was an inn next to it and from then on there was no house and no life
There was no accurate training and talent assessment for me, so far I think I did everything by chance.
Either that or that, I had no choice but how talented I was
I have my third and fourth paintings, I kept them, fortunately I kept them because of the love I had.
I still have them, the grades they gave me were 16, 15, I was in the fourth and fourth grade when my father gave me a book and I still have that book.
It was a book about nature, chemistry and animals, he said kill it
Later I received a book by Max Ernst, I saw that he had assembled the work from the same book, I have them too
Max Ernst had surrealistic graphic works that he assembled from the same book I had, which was very interesting to me.
And I started painting on those animals
I would draw and bring it to my fourth grade teacher, he would sit down and draw the bugs with a pen, I hated not to touch them
You know it was very bad at all, you think I worked with a pencil, now I have the same, I drew an eagle with a pencil
He had written it in autograph and I did not dare to say do not touch it, let it be like this
Where we lived we were wealthy, we were middle class and we had a big yard, there were trees and these and life was good, not too bad
But the outside environment, our hygiene and our bathing was a story, it was a story really
We had a radio, it was very interesting at that time and in those years a thief came and took that radio and then we found it, well this radio was a communication radio
I have a very interesting memory that my father came one day and locked that radio
He said they were talking about love there, I’m telling the children that at that time the radio was reciting a poem with that situation that locked it
We came out and it was a wireless one or two or three kilometers away to listen to the story of the night
Most summers I was at home, I preferred to go out and play, I played in the alley but there were problems and my parents would not let me communicate with them
It was a neighborhood that had borders, it was religious, but on one side there was a middle class, there was a border, now there is another mess
I have a lot of memories from that time, for example, the reality of the women’s bath is in my mind
We would stand in line to go under the shower, they would take me under the hot shower, I would get hot, for example, there
I went to the bathroom, it took a long time, we would come in the middle of it and eat something and then we would come back.
Then they would wash us again, the last time we came out, I would say, oh my God, this washing of our feet and body is over, that is, I was tired and I could not walk.
I mean, it was a story, these, these are writings, we got out of it well, and this became our father’s duty.
I mean, one day in the bathroom, they said that this is Niar, he grew up, then when my father came, another story started.
He would wake me up at 4 o’clock and tell me to get up, well, I was a child too and I would not get up and I wanted to go to school
And the other 5 would take me and we would go forward like that story of the dervishes and we would make the baby’s night and in the morning when we went to the bathroom there was still no one
We were, and he was a blind man, and I have a mental thing from that time that I sometimes drew, but now I can not kill, those imaginary and mental faces of mine.
But they are always in my mind and I have a special feeling after coming out of the bathroom, the same feeling I had at that time.
I have a happy feeling that does not always come to me, I thought that the four elements that Bashlar says about soil and such, for example, water has affected me.
I have a special pleasure, I had this feeling at that time, a state of transformation occurs to me, that the same environment, the same scene occurs again
In the summers, I was more in our blood and on top of the mulberry tree, I could see the city
My father would close the door and lock me out of the yard
I was looking up from there and I saw the airport, it was too far, now I can not see our blood
But it gave me a very free state, that is, of our blood that had stairs and I went up, when I went up the mulberry tree.
In the morning I would go to the top of the mulberry tree and eat berries and look into that depth.
The flight of birds was always a freedom for me, I told them to go there from this cramped house
My mother was also a disciplined person, she beat us and we had rewards, I was walking in my yard, one day I turned around and went to the basement
My mother closed the door, that is, my first prisoners were in our blood, that is, they took my freedom
I knocked and broke the glass, I was very childish, I broke the glass, which means let me go
I came to Amirkhizi High School, it was public at that time, my math was not bad, my other lessons were not bad, it was average
But I was very interested in painting and at the same time cinema, which I was very, very interested in
We were rewarded to get some money from my father and go to the cinema, it was a reward
I had to wait long enough to come out this afternoon and then beg that we wanted to go and see a movie.
And he would give us money, we would be happy, he would not give that the situation was over
I had a teacher in the seventh grade, Mr. Shahlafar, he wrote for us and he was also our painting teacher.
It did not matter what principles I had, we had a model that I would deliver
But in the middle of the seventh grade I was in, he came and put a live model, for example, he put on a coat and said, “Kill this.”
I thought it was very interesting, but it did not teach us how to work and draw like this, and it was an hour to draw the model.
Well, at home I used to get help from my father, he also helped me, but he never told me to go and be a painter or something like that.
He did not attach much interest to me being a painter and artist, he preferred me to become a doctor, to become an engineer when I became
And I suffered, I suffered for a lifetime, when I finished the seventh summer, I went to the printing house and worked
I used to clean the printing house, our printing house was always clean in the summers because I worked there
I would go and bring a bucket of water and in the afternoon he would give me 5 rials and I would go and eat bread and cheese.
So that I can save and buy the children’s universe on Sunday, now I do not know if it was 5 Rials, 3 Rials or 2 Rials, I do not remember
Sometimes when I worked hard for those clients, they would give me money
That day I would go and eat kebabs, eat broth and enjoy
The same broths brought me rewards, there was a chelokbabi there at all, and I ate bread and cheese that day,
I would come there and just smell the chelokbabi
I saw some people coming and eating chelokbab and I can not, my life has been austerity, the fact is
I finished seventh grade with the same vegetables I ate, I got sick late in the summer, I got typhoid, typhoid fever
After the schools opened, I was very interested that it is the first of October and I have to go to school, I went to school and at that time the Shah had come to Tabriz
Well, the children would be taken away and we would stand in line, and they should come
My recovery period was a period when I had to be careful and we stood so long that it did not end.
It has become a parable in Tabriz that Shah ……….. means he did not come, and the last time he came, he just passed by and left, and we were the black of the army, where we stood and applauded, this is also a story.
This November, when I came, I was weak in some of my lessons, but I got a good 10, I remember that algebra had started and I reached myself
My discussion here is painting, well the painting teacher came and put a model, it was always a model that he gave and I came and sat down and drew it
I brought it and said who pulled it, I said that I pulled it well, it had hit me in the head before, he did not know me
He did not know it before, but the next week, when I drew and brought it, he said who drew it, I said I drew it myself.
Wrote 20, it was the beginning, Mr. Hosseinpour, God bless him, it started the following week
It had a good effect on me, it is true that later when I saw him, I told him why you did not teach me painting, he said that the environment was not suitable there either.
Here I had a dual interest, cinema, theater and painting, I liked theater more
When the ninth grade ended, I changed my major and chose math
It was not bad, but I did not study much, I always wanted to go more to cinema, film and cinema, the 1350s and later, you know, American films came
My mother used to say where do you go in the evenings, I used to say that I would go to the library to study and instead of the library I would go to the cinema
I mean, in the morning when my friend came, I would say that a movie had changed in Asian cinema, he would say yes, Dad, where would I get the money to go to the cinema?
What excuse do I have to make money, I kept the Eid money they gave me
And I wanted them to stay so smooth that I finally spent them to go to the movies.
When I got my diploma, I renewed it, I do not say that I was unconscious or I do not know I was not creative, no, I did not study because I was not interested
And I came to Tehran for Kharazmi entrance exam classes
– Why did not you go to Mirk Conservatory?
One side was that at that time what was very important was 3 very respectable disciplines, you know it was mathematics and natural science and literature
The literature you went to, they said he was a weak student, the conservatory, which means you were very weak, we had a technical conservatory, but they said that those who are weak go
And Mirk Conservatory, which I do not want to insult at all, they were respectful
Those who went there were really brave, but they said that people who are weak go there.
And my parents did not want me to go there, and I could not go to Mirk Conservatory in any way, and I still do not know what would have happened to me if I had gone.
Part 02
It was in 1347 that I went to the army, the military period also started with the cold of that time, in 1347 the cold was severe.
The commander of our battalion told him to come, he told me to go, some colonel wants you
I went there and he spoke to me very respectfully and said that I want to teach this weapon to the general tomorrow.
I give pictures of this and you paint this in the big shell, I sat in the barracks at 12 o’clock and I drew this and then I was given a lot of leave
Later on the day of the shooting, I saw that they were calling me, so I went and saw that he was the same colonel
He said come and sit behind the machine gun, I said what do I want to do, I do not like machine guns at all, he said sit down and hit
And in my life alone was the place where I hit the machine gun and saw that yes, I hit the mountain and the bag, I did not kill anyone, I taught for the soldiers
At that time, a theater was performed there, I went to the theater, I remember that I performed in the theater, I wrote the script, I forgot to say, I was a body of knowledge, I was a teacher
– Where?
There was a lottery and I fell in Isfahan and went from Isfahan to Frieden, we packed our bags and left.
I really liked it and decided to start painting during this time
And we went to Frieden, and there was a lottery, and I fell into a village called Noghan Sofla.
It was close to Aligudarz, we used to go from Frieden for an hour, for example, and then there was a station and a restaurant.
I had to walk from there for 20 minutes when I reached ten, but ten was very beautiful.
My serious work started from those ten, it is very important for me
There, everything I wrote to my father about how to make a canvas, he did not answer at all, he did not like
I started working myself, working with watercolors and starting to do some copying
Very interesting communication happened to me there, like getting to know a rural community
I was getting older and older, and especially in the barracks, there were some people who were more educated, and later I found out who these people were.
I think military service was a good time for me, after a while some people from Khuzestan came to ten of us
We contacted them and then they came and one of them came and said you are painting.
Saying yes, I paint and these are very simple, he said I have a family who is also a painter
But he is studying at the University of Tehran, he said I will give his address and you go to him
I also took a leave and came to Tehran and wanted to attend the University of Fine Arts
I said what is his name, said Halimi, now he is Dr. Mohammad Hossein Halimi and he was a student at that time
I came to the Faculty of Fine Arts and brought my work
I was doing a great job of copying and finishing my work on the tiles I had painted, I did not want to wash it.
I would put the paper down and then pick it up and repeat it, and I did not know that my work was abstract.
I did not understand these methods at all at that time, I picked them up and brought them, I also brought copies.
Mr. Halimi put these aside as he left my copies until he got to those abstract works.
He said how did you do these, these are good, we stayed what does it mean
Our father came in, this is a weird thing that I printed on the tile I worked on and then I put the paper on it.
Well, I did not understand, he said these are very good, the colors were very beautiful in each other, I still have them and I kept them
He said these are good, he said what you read, I said nothing I do copy like this, I want to enroll in the Faculty of Fine Arts
He came and made a list for me, books that were not very many at that time, you know.
He gave me the list and said go and read these, I went looking for those books and saw that the books are expensive and not at all and I prepared them later.
I took the entrance exam for fine arts, I remember very well that the questions of philosophy, aesthetics, I do not know the literary texts that I was taught what these mean in art
Then there was a series of stencil pictures that said who are these works that were not seen at all and I did not know at all
I stayed and wrote something, I finally got to practical work, they gave me A4 paper and I had a pencil
The question they asked us was to kill either a naked man or a woman or a horse
We also started working proudly from those copies, whatever I did I could not draw a figure
Where to start, where is the hand, I did not know how to draw, all this time I saw that I worked with all objectivity and copied
And I was really exhausted at that moment, I said okay, this is a big lesson for me
I came out and said that I will not be accepted, I can not be an artist unless I strengthen my imagination
I was looking for everything that everyone drew and I did not do much
Believe me, I came back and sat down and said where is the head, where is the hand, I have to work with my imagination, I have the same
Part 03
When my service period ended and I came back I sat down and copied some work, I mean I could sell it because I was unemployed
I had worked with a pencil for 2-3 years, so I kept these, and then during this good period I did not have money in my pocket, it was all a savings from my military days, when they paid 300 tomans.
I had something about 500 tomans because he could have gone to America with that 500 tomans, because my friends left
And my mother would not let me, she was very interested in me in this regard and told me not to go and stay here.
I went to Bank Melli to be hired there, see all the accidents, I came out and until they gave the result, there was a friend who has a new place that is better than the oil company, come and try there
I said where and said Tavanir company is Iran’s electricity producer, I said ok, I collected the documents and went there soon
See how lucky everything was, that is, it was luck, society did not decide for me, who am I, where do I want to go, I have talent, I do not have?
Where is the bank and where is the electricity? I went and wrote that I want to come and take an exam in electricity.
I came and tested in electricity and I was accepted, I waited again and the money was not in my pocket and I did not want to take money from my father.
When I entered in 1349, I became a postal repair technician, and after I got my degree, I became the head of the postal and line repair department.
You would think it was a very harsh environment and a very heterogeneous environment, but at the same time I had art studies
I remember we wanted a transformer where we could rotate it about 360 degrees, which was a good 50 tons, and how to rotate it, we got a lot of rewards.
At 10 o’clock it was said that it was good time for tea and we should go and have tea
At that time I was going in a desert environment, there was a valley, everyone was going for tea and I was going there.
I would open the book and read, I would keep the book under my shirt, reading was a kind of politics, it is very interesting that they said it is political
What do you say, I read a book, I read Tolt Routledge’s biography, or I read the meaning of art, or I read Herbert Reid, these are nothing political.
Or Wongog’s books came at the time I was reading and I had those opportunities between those times and I read these books very carefully and lovingly.
I was looking to raise my level of education, in 1352, it was the time of the Institute of Technology that I could continue my studies for a post-diploma and I was a diploma
There I participated in the entrance exam and was accepted and I went there to study electricity
You see, I started working the other way and there was a dilemma for me
In February 1974, I participated in the entrance exam and was accepted to study physics at night
Let me say one thing that is very interesting and that is that I was always the last person or the first person to book
There were 14 people I was hiring, the last one being me, and then it was very interesting that I was the first reservation for the university.
And I said to myself that I accept that after a long time and working, physics was very beautiful for me, that I study science well, physics was very attractive to me at all.
And in the morning I went to give my documents, which they said had not been answered yet, I said that I was the first reservation, no one had come and there was no news until noon.
That day was very long for me and I was told to go and come in the afternoon
Many people registered and I came in the afternoon, my situation was very bad, I said how can it be that my destiny depends on one person and it really changes me
When I arrived in the afternoon, he opened the door and said, “Come, as if they had given me the world.”
After a long time, after these efforts, and after this work and going to the army, I was accepted to the university.
They told me to go for an examination and they said that you should wash the meat, I have been sitting so far.
I said that I promise to go to university, we will listen, he said you promise me, I said yes
I studied physics, in February of 1953, I started going to university and studying physics
It was the year 54 when the universities became crowded, one day I came and saw that yes, there was a strike in the university
I saw that no one was walking, they were standing, but this sociological discussion was also my exam that day
Well, I saw that some people were shaking, they went on strike at the university that day, and at night we had to go and take an exam, and I was thinking of those who were shaking.
I came there and they said it is not obligatory for someone to take the exam, everyone can go for the exam, and anyone who wants to go can go.
I said we’re going out, I remember, and I’m going forward, we came and got to the crossroads
Well, I stood up to see what they said, yes, 10 people stayed and the rest came back, and I got zero in sociology.
Part 04
When I was ten, a magazine called Talash came out, now it was for a government agency or something else I do not know at all
He had a page that put the works of contemporary Iranian art and gave the news of the exhibitions
I got acquainted with Iranian painters there, such as Iran Droudy, Munawari, Daryabeigi, Ardeshir Mohasses, their works were published there, and I liked
The first time I met Mohasses there, I became interested in his work, but I did not want to copy his work.
I sent one of my ten works to Ferdowsi and he published it the following week.
What I did was 2 feet and my hand was clenched, that was the first thing they printed from me, and that motivated me a lot.
As soon as they published, I sat down for the next week and worked and sent and it was published and every week I worked like this and sent there, this is how my press career started
I had an exhibition in Mirk Conservatory in November 1973, why was this exhibition held and why and how did I go to Mirk?
I think it was the summer of 1973 that I went there for design classes
I went on Monday and saw that there was another gentleman and he came and saw my work and said where did you work and what is your relationship?
At that time, Ferdowsi magazine was publishing my work, I said see, I work like this and I want to learn figure
He said bring your work so I can see, I brought the magazines, then he told me not to come here, you will be ruined here, that was exactly what he said
Mr. Tabatabai invited me to the same exhibition that was held, put up 2 panels and told me to leave your work here.
I remember that time when Hajizadeh came from Tehran, they also brought the works of Muslims
When I put on the exhibition, I saw that the students came there and gathered in front of two panels. They questioned me and me.
And for the first time I met my audience who asked why this is so and why this is the case, they wanted logic
I came for the first time and put my work together, 1353 when I put on an exhibition, that exhibition was very noisy
– Where?
In Tabriz, Osuli Gallery
Little by little, my case started, we fell into a place where we did not even know what we were doing.
I did not really know, we started a strange thing to come and be accountable
Another exhibition was held that year, I went there and saw that it was a sculpture with the works of another painter that did not fit at all.
I went to that sculptor and saw that day and said that I am someone, this informant stood in front of me, they were Behrooz Hekmat
We became friends and he made sculptures and I designed, we connected and his work was the same.
We decided to have a two-person exhibition in November 1974
We started having things in common, he sculpted and I designed and I started doing things that were related to the constitutional era and became famous and still are today.
Well, there were problems for us. In the same exhibition, the police chief himself came and saw him, and the next day he called Mr. Heshmat and he left.
Well, we were young too and we did not know what to do, well now what they said and the threats and so on.
He came back and said, “Who are they saying to write something under them?”
All the spectators came every day, that is, they did not come once, but were there every day.
That is, from the first day I had the exhibition, they would come, they would come tomorrow, they would come the next day and they would see the works.
I said what should I do, the audience says that you defended so much that it does not want to be explained and you have to communicate with your work of art
Then it started and I put on an exhibition in Seyhoun and it was over and they sold my work, bought some of it themselves and bought some office supplies.
It was very interesting, in Tabriz, the situation was with the police, but they bought my constitutional works
Because of my stubbornness, I did not go to get the money, I said I can not get this money
You see, we had an idea at all, for example, we did not buy national shoes and we did not eat Pepsi, because these belonged to the factory owners, look at these things to be
That is, someone saw us having national shoes and said that you are helping a certain capitalist.
I also bought Negin Mahmoud Enayat magazine, I did not see Mahmoud Enayat and I only sent work to them
It was published every month, I went to their magazine office 2-3 times and I could not see them, but they wrote a letter to me and they described and described it a lot.
And he had said that he would boldly send us some of those beautiful works for us to publish for Eid
And I had a period from 1955-54 when my works were published in Negin
When I was studying at the university, in 1975, we had a two-person exhibition in Tabriz, the training library, which was very crowded.
– With the same sculptor?
Yes, we had an exhibition together, it was a training library where we made the light of a hall ourselves,
And when I entered, I saw that the hall was full of people, and the governor had come
And one side was my work and the other side was Behrouz Heshmat
On one side of the poster I had drawn, because my friend had also made a cow with iron, I had drawn a very real cow.
Half of it, for example, if it had eyes, I would have put my own eyes, then it had the right horn, it was a cow horn and the other side was an iron horn, it had bolts and nuts and it had flowers and plants.
When I looked at this later, I said, “Look what you have done. The discussion of tradition and modernity is as it is here.”
Like technology and land, everything could be interpreted there
From the very beginning, the cow was important to me, and in Ferdowsi magazine, I had drawn a cow that had lost its milk and did not want to give milk.
In fact, it was the issue of oil and these that you should not stop, the issue of the nationalization of oil
And it was very interesting, and I think today, after 40 years of looking at it, I see that it was a virgin thought that I was working on at the time.
Why this came to my mind, well, came from my childhood mind
In my childhood, we used to go to Golestan Garden in Tabriz, we would have loved to have been taken there as a child.
And that was the story of my mother taking my sister and me there, but my father did not come.
We would go for a walk around the garden and wait for our father to come and ride us on those scooters, which were a horse and a car, and we would pack our bags.
Now we would set an hour and come to the front door, we would pay 10 shillings to enter, there was a ticket
We would stand there until our father came, until he came we would cling to him to take us there and then we would ride the skyscraper
Then I would bring us and we would eat ice cream, and then there would be the story of the carriage that we rode in, and how my father would ride in the carriage, and then we would get off to bring us to the end of our blood.
If there was no taxi, we would get on soon to pack with this cart, our father would say how much you would take us, he would say for example 10 Rials, my father would say no, I would not give 10 Rials to take to our house
He would say no and we would get off and say that Mr. Tiger, what is 10 Rials now and we would ride in another cart again?
He would now take us and take us and take those alleys to our house.
Now why I explained this, once I heard that it is said that a cow with 2 heads was brought to Golestan Garden
Well now it does not matter much to me, well it was a genetic thing and had 2 heads
But at that time I was saying why 2 heads, what is this cow like, I said take us, one day they told us to go and see this cow, its picture was disturbed, we went and saw that the cow had been taken
This cow had remained in my mind since then
Part 05
May 1975 I saw an address in the newspaper about the Bulgarian cartoon exhibition in Gabrovo
I sent one of my works, it was a figure, then there were 2 cows that I had taken from a magazine, there were 2 cows plowing its brain
After the exhibition, a catalog came to me, a very strong catalog
It was the second Bulgarian cartoon exhibition that still exists and is very prestigious
That book was very interesting to me, there I saw that, yes, what is the situation of caricature in the world
Artistic design, humorous film, what is Carnival, Bulgaria’s discussion is humorous
I did not copy, I was impressed and my work improved and I saw what stage the world is at
You say what was my father’s reaction to my first exhibition, he did not show any reaction, now I thought he would object.
I wrote in the brochure, I do not remember the exact brochure, but I have the brochure, he himself was not very happy about that life
His happiness was that he came to work in the printing house and on Fridays he came to some positions.
And I was waiting for him to say this text a little slower, it was sharp, he did not say and he printed it
Most of the printing presses in Tabriz were on and were under a lot of surveillance
For many people, they came to the printing house, why did you print this leaflet and took it to SAVAK and these, these were too many issues, that is, we had a conflict.
I saw justice in front of my father’s eyes, it was an example for me, he could not analyze sociology but he understood that it is an oppression
Oh, how much does it work and it does not get anywhere, isn’t it by working? Not talented? So why can’t it get somewhere?
He was very smart, he had read everything I had bought later, that is, when he was old he would finish the book from morning till night and tell Kiwmarth to give the book again.
And I feel sorry for my father with that great talent, I also have his paintings, he worked very well
He could have been one of the people in the future, but he was not properly evaluated
December 1974 We held our exhibition in Seyhoun, it was good Seyhoun and we came to Vozara Street
The cinema was in the city of Farang, it was stylish, next to the Iran-US Association, a very clean gallery with marble and organization, we did these things there
Neither that situation was found, nor that crowd came, only one came very stylish and so on and so on and trim
What is going on here, the police are also standing outside, we said what was going on there, what is going on here
I did not say anything, Behrooz, do you remember when we came out and said that our place is not here
You know that the 1950s were a decade of intellectuals, a decade of radicalism.
In the case of literature, poets and writers, everyone was like this, poets were just as annoyed.
Sohrab Sepehri’s discussion was one place that was completely aside, Shamloo was one place, Rahmani was one place, these were completely separate from each other
I held an almost solo exhibition at the Persepolis Gallery in 1955
There was a problem with putting on an exhibition in Tehran, I sat down and left the calc, because the poster that was there had already been worked with a theater, and I drew it.
And then Mr. Momayez came and introduced my work and me for the first time
We held that exhibition the next day and I returned to Tabriz as usual
And 2 days later, I called to hear what was said about Exhibition 7, which was canceled
I said why, he said it was crowded here, then the Minister of Culture, Mr. Pahlabad, came because it was a film festival, and he said on the porch what was going on here.
I mean, this was what they said and I have nothing to do, I have her empty photo, Ms. Nafiseh Shahdadi took that photo and gave it to me.
In short, they closed the door and we held our workshop only one day and the next day the students came
This is what they told me and I did not see it myself, the students were standing in front of the gallery to open so that we could go.
After graduating from university, I went to Turkey in 1979
I was there for a week, I went and saw the environment, it was a very political environment with strong contradictions, it was a year after the revolution
From there I went to Austria, I went by train, I arrived in Austria, the first night of the film showed a simple incident of the third martyr
And my first visit to Europe It was the art environment, I opened my eyes and started seeing museums
And I saw very beautiful museums, I saw the works of Clement, I saw the works of Van Gogh there.
I understood that Artunovo section very well there
I stayed there for more than a month because I got sick part of the trip, my stomach bleed and I went to the hospital.
I also designed in the hospital, the story there and the patients respected me more than when they heard that I was doing art.
The nurses came and paid their respects, the doctors paid their respects to the artist
Then I would sit there in the evenings, it was very interesting, one day I was sitting like a Buddha and everyone came to see how he was sitting.
I said how I sat, that is, they did not know how to sit like this, they said that he sat like a Buddha
And I started my drawing work there and I worked from a patient and in the morning when I got up to go to the bathroom, he told me how much I should pay to give me that design.
It was very interesting for me, he did not say give it to me, you see, there is still this thinking in Iran that I am told to take a picture of me
Basically, it’s a shame that I say I take your picture and it costs so much, for example.
It was a great lesson for me, I saw the works up close and then I came back, I came back to Iran in the fall
At that time I had gone with my own money, fortunately I got a scholarship, a study that was not real but I had to go to Italy for 2 months
On April 3, 1980, 2 days before Sizdeh Badr, my name was announced and I went to Italy.
It was very interesting for me then, I went to Milan, Leonardo da Vinci Hotel, the best hotel
The best airport is Leonardo da Vinci Airport in Rome, so you know, the best hotel in Milan was called Leonardo da Vinci
In Tabriz, we do not have a hotel or street named Sultan Mohammad, remove this Sultan of his Sultan, leave Mohammad
I do not know why Sultan Mohammad, who is an international artist and the Metropolitan is proud of him, why you do not put his name on a street, what is wrong with it?
We went to the museum there, the various museums I have listed here, we went to the Museum of Contemporary Art in Milan
It was a square and a street full of galleries, in the evenings my hangout was there
The famous Gothic class was where I went, there were a lot of galleries that I saw and worked on.
It was very interesting that when I was painting and leaving the hotel, they came every day and cleaned it, that is, the maids.
And the night I came, I saw that my work was there, right there, I was marking and I saw that they did not touch the original.
One day I was waiting there to see who this maid was. She came and said that you are a good artist.
I mean, it was very interesting, a servant understood this art, valued it, understood it
I mean, they understood life, I always think we pay for life, until we live
Part 06
It was the beginning before the revolution. In my opinion, I was in that society, I was in that society as well.
The revolution had a great impact, when the revolution came, the books came out, it was more systematic, it was much more accurate.
If we understood the theory of revolution, one thing was utopia, we actually saw that no, it is not, society and people are not what you think they are.
Many people realized their mistakes that they have theoretical weaknesses, not everything is on paper, not everything is in books
The books we read were also incomplete, the world did not agree with those books, we had to understand the developments.
Where to start, where to start, change was again a methodology
Now we come to the point where, for example, in my own interpretation of art, for example, I say that if society wants to change, it can change from science.
Now, many may say no, this is not the case, but in general, it is science that I think is evolving into technology.
And there is technology that changes social relations, and it is from social relations that art is formed
This is a formula that is in my mind, it may not be ideal, but the technical art itself does not take shape.
We have a telecommunication, we have information, there is a mobile phone and there is the Internet, and then there is video art.
So if it were not for these connections, how could this be?
Where does cinema come from to come and reach art cinema, this is how I proceed.
And one very important thing that happened to me was that I asked myself why I’m like this, why I’m here, that ‘s exactly it.
I traveled abroad, where are they and where am I, I used to study in the past
I was saying that I have to start from the beginning, where did man come from, now let’s leave the Max Planck discussion, I have nothing to do with the Planck wall, those discussions
From then on, let me start and see what kind of person he was, where he lived, what his relationship was like.
So not in a fixed ideological framework, I started reading several books
And I came to the conclusion that the period of early humans, for example, 3 to the period that we can say, for example, Paleolithic and Middle Stone Age and Neolithic
There were a lot of issues there, human communication, human thinking was formed there
The mirrors that are held, the relationships that are formed, the art that is formed
Why art is abstract, why art is naturalistic, why there are 2 African arts, 7 African art and Bushman art
Why one is naturalistic and one is abstract, why in Iranian art pottery paintings are geometric, what is the problem?
Why there is naturalism in Lasko Cave is the ontology of those times
Man at that time looked in a holistic way that he saw the world in that way, so the reasons must be found.
This is their view of the universe that because it has been abstracted, art has also been abstracted
Now it is absolutely impossible to say, but I understood that art in these two categories, for example, Jung raises the same issue that
Either art is complete realism or complete abstract art oscillates between the two
We have the same situation today, the books were opened, the world changed
Compare the year 1978, what the world and the blocks were like, what happened to the Berlin Wall in 1980.
Where has technology reached? The Internet had not yet taken shape.
For example, we were studying at Fortran University, we had a calculation rule, now I could not use the calculation rule in physics until the end, and the middle of the class said that he did not want it, it is not useful, Word is a calculator.
Technology was ahead of us, we did not understand, this technology that I have in my hands today
At what stage in the world, in European and American research centers?
And since I had seen in my travels in different centers that they knew what the future would be like next year.
Because it was a sales issue, it was a product, they knew what to add better than that
The developments are so intense today, I say it is the confusion and the involvement of the developments.
Today’s man is involved with different worldviews, after the revolution I got to know myself and my world better
In 1373, I started teaching at Tabriz Azad University
Somewhere I was teaching post-Islamic architecture and art
Well, I needed to have a theory, I sat down and read books
Well now in my concepts I do not want to discuss whether Islam had art or not
But there was an art after Islam that was related to the past
I read the myths, the myths of the East, for example, Egypt
I’m not a fundamentalist, to tell you the truth, what I needed as a teacher or as an artist, I read these
I read Iranian mythology and then I read some theoretical mysticism, for example, which I did not read at all in the past.
I understood mysticism and mysticism very superficially, but after the revolution, they started to study.
And I needed to read a lot about the architecture of the world after the revolution to describe his art
Even when I was teaching art history, I had to understand Egyptian mythology to explain Egyptian art.
Then I read carefully about painting, well these were the product after the revolution
Needs that came to me, I had to study piece by piece, I did not understand anything about painting before the revolution
I did not want to reject or accept any issues without studying, I went to them one by one, I worked on them structurally and visually.
Again, I confess that I did not understand much, that is, the very wide world that exists in painting.
Part 07
When I started teaching, the topics they taught me were to teach more theory
I sat down and did some writing on topics such as art history, Oriental painting
But my reaction to my audience and my students was not very good, I saw that it was a dry space
And like the argument we have now, and I can not show a picture, well we could not argue at all.
Because of this, at that time I was photocopying images and distributing them in the classroom
Later, when systems changed and technology changed, computers and video projectors came, we bought them too.
And I was able to do 2-3 things, that is, the lessons I was giving, both writing the text and drawing.
And in order to be able to coordinate in these, for example, I added music
This is a very subtlety of art history classes, which is why I came across a course in my technical management course where I was made an assistant director of education.
As soon as a month passed, I was told to come and go to training. I came to Tehran, there was a training center next to the radio station.
I learned audio-visual equipment there, I became a first-year student, it was photography and I learned film.
Well, when the computer came, I used this because I had seen its training and its effects were very great
Fortunately, there is a lot of information, for example, about Europe and the United States, I collected documents
That the kids could more easily communicate well with them, and I was successful
These were not very neat and like big companies, but they were more comfortable in our language
Then I could, for example, color the writings so that I could bring in the titles and with these titles the student could digest the material.
They mistyped our textbooks, very blunders
I made a mistake in one of the books, but I do not have the patience to send it and tell you to correct it.
One thing is written about the history of Iran in one book and another thing is written in another book
Well, there was no central management to coordinate the books and see that a subject could not be said in many ways.
There are many misconceptions, misinterpretations and definitions that have been personalized and interpreted by Gholz.
The children tell us which one to write, I say write that it is correct and in the wrong book, write like this
The textbook at the lower levels should not be mistaken, it’s now a very long discussion to sit down and talk about.
Where are we in terms of educational thinking, what should we do in art, what is our task with art?
For example, we promote the Greek style, we promote our painting style, we promote our past schools, which one?
And they are all incomplete, we still can not write, for example, for a figurative book class, so which model of figure should I put there
How can he sit and look at this limb, can we, for example, undress someone and leave him in the classroom?
Today, the level of education of universities has decreased because they can enter and leave the university very easily.
It’s not like they go easy and come out hard, that’s another matter
We went in really hard at that time and studied hard
Now that you are returning to Tabriz, what advice do you have for these 10-12 students who are sitting here and are young, as an experienced and worldly person?
Nima Yoshij tells her son in letters not to trust anyone, read this, Nima tells her son not to trust
I read this but I trusted it, it says do not trust, read the book and make your life easier and lighter
Be free, freedom is in that liberation, I really tell children that
I tell girls not to put too much weight on themselves and money and cars and these are not life, they really are not
They go overnight and what can happen is that you define life for yourself, in Iran it is very difficult to define life
I envy the lives of many of the painters I have on Facebook, for example, artists who do weird things.
For example, he has a hall, he makes canvas for himself and himself, he works, there is no problem
I do not know if this is good or not, a person in trouble can be creative or comfortable and tell me what to do well
Nothing, come and paint, for example, let’s play with color for a while, because I have no problem
And the painter is not supposed to raise those issues, no, this is not the case, I am teaching the class that I run and I am talking about the same thing.
It has been effective, many people send messages after a long time, for example, the student wrote to me 5-6 years ago that I miss you, well, I was also happy that you missed me.
Many may wish they were who they are but do not know what is happening to me
My student wishes this, I say let me go, if you see the false reality you will hate me at all
I’m not an ugly person but I’m not prosperous, I’m not very happy in life because you wish you were like me
Part 08
During the period that I participated in international exhibitions, I saw the reactions, my work started a little harder and harder.
Improved structures, more correct, I think it was a change, until it comes and goes to the revolution
During the revolution, the state of society was such that it affected my work in terms of content
After the war started, I reacted to the current situation and went to work with color and pastel techniques.
Which shows the time when I was both alone and working and the time of turmoil that I had at that time.
Because I was also depressed and it showed itself in my works, I saw a lot of deaths and martyrs.
And I went after them at all and then the doctors said you should not go and see these scenes
Because everyone has their own capacity and I could not stand it
And for example, in the morning when it was bombing, I was single and alone, I woke up in a hurry and it affected me.
And later it became more, it can be seen in my paintings, the deformity of the shape of people
In the ’60s, when I had an exhibition at the House of Artists, that was part of Pastel’s work
In the 70’s my job changes, I get married and my life changes a little bit and it gets a little happier
These are some of the exhibitions I put on, then I will start working on more cartoons, cartoons that are very common and their structure has not changed much.
I wanted to have an exhibition in Sarban, where I started doing the same things you see behind me.
There was a period in 1989 when I was working for the exhibition and I am continuing the same trajectory now
And at the same time, I started doing great things
Works that were 1 meter by 1 meter and I had not worked in this size before, I mostly went to the acrylic technique
Very soon, for example, in 1987, I started doing this
Why are your works mostly black and white?
The first ones I started with were for printing and were not suitable for color printing
Because they were making engravings for the magazine at that time, my black and white work started from that time and I did not do color work because the details were not printed well.
But it’s better to print, it’s better to take pictures and make engravings
That’s why I gained a bit of skill in this job so that I could work with pen and rapid.
Even now, my works are more prominent than my color works, but color work is also enjoyable for me, I would love to do this work as well.
– Your style of work is also more expressionist, right? Why?
Yes, it goes back to the fact that different expressionist techniques can illustrate these events.
That is to say, the same discussion of the extremism of the Romantics is also part of Expressionism
And the clearer the value, the more intense the impact on the audience
In some parts of my work, abstract style was also seen, but it is not pure abstract
There is a connection that is made with man, because it is intensified by doing abstract work.
It is not pure abstraction without content and sense
For example, I want to show the earth or a hole in which man is immersed, I create its circumference with the same textures.
Absolutely, but Yahoo makes sense, where should I use it, if I separate the human and show these, yes, it becomes an abstract work
But these lines and textures are next to those people
Sometimes I worked in nature, but there, too, the tree I planted became a human again.
I mean, I was not looking for pure nature, what, for example, was the nature of the Europeans, not in my work.
It was the form of man and society that I worked with color and form
Sometimes I think I only had one subject to work with from the beginning, I do not have different subjects
Except in cartoons, which, for example, may be the subject of love, the subject of money, I work on certain subjects that give
But no, in my paintings, there are no different subjects, this is my conflict with human beings
I did not see culture in terms of visual elements or elements, for example, to use cashmere to say in a way that this is my culture
Or, for example, to bring architectural works here and say this, no, culture is not the only one
There is a culture in all social relations, and this is how I showed it, and I think this is part of our culture.
Sometimes, for example, I brought elements such as horses or Azerbaijani figures, or, for example, the instrument or makeup of tribal women, but very rarely.
There is a discussion of identity in my thoughts and ideas, which I will focus on more than, for example, a small part of what I am saying.
I do not believe that I can kill your bed again, for example, it is a joke and humor for me, what should I do?
When I start, I measure, my subject is clear in my mind but it is not fixed and it changes while working
With one line or one movement, the subject changes and I finally give myself time to work, I do not deal with it too much because I am wrong.
I give a distance, half an hour, 2 hours, 1 day, then I come back and see the work again
Some things that are too long, such as 10 years, I do not touch anymore
What I am offering is that your service is for 1 month and 2 months to be manipulated
In fact, I did some things again after a while and did other things
There comes a time when a person separates from a person, like a child, like a birth that when you sign it, I say it is over
But still it can not be said that it is over, sometimes I come back and see that there is a problem and I can touch it again
After signing, you can work so that they can finally take the job from someone, say give it to me, it’s over.
Apart from this, I also prepare some plans, not all of them are like this, my plans are too many.
I have booklets that are full of these designs, these designs are a spark for me
You do not believe, for example, that I put my proposals next to the final work, they are close to each other and it is true, but what I did here is different from that
Sometimes the designs are very artistic, sometimes the final work is like this, I can not say for sure that this is the way, no it is not.
But most of the time I work mentally, I cultivate in the mind, and then when I work again, changes occur.
But the framework is in that original design and in those sketches
Those sketches are so much my credit that it’s for me and how I drew it
In a period of yes, I was drawing from outside, but it was not the same
For example, I would go to a shop and see the heads of cows beheaded, it was very scary, the front of this shop was full of these heads
Well, I came home and, for example, pulled the cows’ heads together
Nobody paid any attention to him in the street and in the shop, that all these beheaded cows are in front of the shop, it was normal for everyone
Or, for example, I bought a sheep’s head and put it in the refrigerator and then took it out and worked on it.
This was very exceptional, a lot of times you get tired of it, it’s important to get started
Sometimes it’s like a weight that you should not lift, your back breaks but you have to keep doing it somehow
I try to keep doing this, it rarely happens that for example I give up half the work
I try to do one thing and finish it, I said it’s hard work, yes some things are hard, they are difficult and you have to work with all your energy
Either life problems or despair are the most critical criticisms that paralyze a person.
It means that someone should come and criticize you very harshly and disappoint you, you should stay away from this distance.
Many times man is confused and takes refuge in art, but there are some disturbances that take the power of the pen and make you cold and you can not work.
Many are going so far as to enjoy the work, now what will be outside is another matter.
Let me tell you now, my job is to suspend people, exhausted people, this is my subject
I’m finishing it and I do not think I will continue because I predict that it is not appropriate in the future and this kind of work will be related to this period, both the community and myself.
I have to show the reaction, I have to show the reaction as a human being, my human beings are 1-2 in each picture.
Both of them are falling, or they have fallen, or they have been thrown, or – humans have been transformed
Part 09
My ontology came from those books, that is, someone comes and sees my work, can tell what the historical period was
I do not want to cover today’s newspaper, I do not want to do it at all
I am also used to discussing fine arts, but I have more ideological thinking and I want to show a certain worldview.
Well, I’m talking about everything, I mean the ocean because it’s not good, I’m a pool 1 mm deep.
You see, one side of art is the enjoyment of the artist himself, which means that when I work, I get paid again.
That is, the moments when one works, of course the type of work also differs, some things are enjoyable, this is an issue
The fact that human thinking is really being replaced by the universe is a spiritual value that is being replaced by materialistic arguments.
In my opinion, it has made an impact on me in this way, that is, one sees the world in his work and spends his time on it.
It can not be lasting, but in any way do a good deed in the world and go
In my opinion, the most honest history is in the works of art that it can show because we may not be so honest in our writing.
There may be big lies in history and we all believe them
But works of art are the most honest resources that I think will remain in the future
– Can you say when was the most important day of your whole life or the most decisive day of your life, where was it and what was it?
Is this your question, the day that changed my life? Well, the same times that I mentioned, for example, going to university, which was a degree that promoted me
Or, for example, that I became an exemplary manager at the national level during Mr. Khatami’s time did not make me very happy that he was in the first week of government.
And it was very interesting that I was selected according to what he had done, and I came very quietly and came back and they gave me a tablet.
And they did not do anything big to do something for me, for example, they beat someone who was elected in the province, of course I did not like them to do it either.
I do not demarcate music and I listen to everything, see first let me say that mentally, if I can say goodbye, I am a romantic person
I mean, I’m not a very serious person intellectually, but at the same time my work is rational, but I have a lot of imagination.
Because of this I also like music, for example I like Chopin and I enjoy his piano a lot.
In general, I experience everything in art, but what I like very much is, for example, the piano, I like Bach very much, I like Harp in his work.
Because I’m not in the Baroque era, but I think his music calms me down. For example, I like Shostakovich with his excitement and the beat of his music.
I listened to Stravinsky, I liked Bella Bartکk, I like Ironi, it’s not like that, I like it but I do not listen too much
See what Iranian music I like, some I like because they are nostalgic, for example I like Banan
Do I like Banan’s music or is it my childhood nostalgia because my father listened to flowers, I can not tell the difference between the two
Because I love the music of the past now that I listen to it, because I always go to the period and the first decades of my life.
I mean, a nonsense movie from the past is nostalgic for me
Which poet or painter or musician appeals to you?
Rumi and Shams Tabrizi in poets whose poems I read a lot and his book is always by my side
I mean, I like those rhythms of the poems as if they are singing them because his work is fluent, as if he is dancing and reciting poetry.
I love them and at the same time I understand them with my own worldview and how simple, easy and deep he said them.
I also like Hafez, but I do not know much about poetry. I used to write things once, but I never claim to be a poet.
When I look at my paintings, I see that yes, I am very close to Picasso.
– What things?
A lot of work, like Picasso’s Guernica, has affected me a lot
I read a lot about Picasso and he was very influential on me, a man who works every day
And it works freely and easily and has no restrictions, for example, this was a discussion for me
From Everyone got something because I wanted to learn
– If you were not a painter in the field of art, what other field of art would you like to specialize in?
I really wanted to be a filmmaker, I really liked it, that is, sometimes a painting is placed in a frame and it becomes very difficult.
But I wanted to be a filmmaker and express my thoughts, for example, I like Tarkovsky, I like his films very much.
I do not look for much content, I like the aesthetics and scenery that it does, I also liked Fellini
Well, I always compare, for example, between Eisenstein and Fellini, how he assembles it and how he does not assemble it.
How does he arrange the scene, for example, I basically deal with Fellini’s work
Or in Iran, for example, I have the same situation with Kiarostami, and when I understand, I have a special pleasure and I can not measure this and tell you what I get from the work of art.
It’s a solid interaction between my life and my work, I feel the passage of time, I know for sure that I have to do 6 things in these 2 months
I mean, in terms of quantity and arithmetic, it’s a bit difficult to strike that balance
I have to have a daily life and balance myself between living between people and my normal life
I do not have a certain behavior everywhere, I treat people differently and I am more isolated and I am not much in the community.
I do not go to the community much and I am more busy with myself and my family and then my art work
Believe me, when I sleep at night, I think about design, not just my designs, for example, when my project is over, what will happen to that one?
Or what will be my subject, how can I continue this, how can I cut it off, will it be very good for me after this situation, that is, will it be hopeful?
What will life be like for me, what will my society be like, will human beings be happy, and will I be happy among them?
And when I think about the future, I’m afraid of the future, I always think I’m going to have some very bad days, let ‘s leave society now.
Well, it’s like this, we’re moving towards a catastrophe, friends, family are gone, it ‘s sad, and finally someone says that I’m left alone
I do not talk at all, no one understands me, does not understand that it means I can not have a dialogue with anyone and little by little I say go, go where they went
Part 10
I found some personal points myself, that is, something was written in the books, I also found things that were not in the books.
For example, the social study of painting during the Mongol era, these that I put together, we saw that Dad
During the Mongol period, most of the paintings and drawings they made were from death
Death of Alexander, death of Esfandiar, wars and slaughter, killing of dragons
What are these and why did they choose death and why is there no happiness in this age
That is to say, everyone who says that there is illustration in painting, there is literature next to it, is true
There was literature, but there were no writers, there was a system that was not next to them, there was a library where they would go and give the book to them.
But the choice of subject was by the artist, and in those books, stories and sweet passages were also included
But they came in that dark period of our history, our dark social period, and they brought images of suffering and misery and as a symbol.
One of the works that I really think is significant is the court of Kiomars by Sultan Mohammad
You can see that the image, in terms of structure, has a complex structure at all, and it lifts the frame up and down in its structure.
The subject is also painful and debatable. Kiomers is in a golden age, in a very beautiful nature
That even the animals are at rest there, a golden age
Kiomars is sitting, Siamak, Houshang and Soroush, there is a triangle there and Surash is bringing news
That your son will kill the black demons, it’s sad, the face of Kiomers that you look at is painful, as if his destiny is there
Siamak also looks at his father, what was the choice made by Sultan Muhammad in the 15th century
Why did he raise this issue, what does he understand about the future?
Does this world understand the Renaissance, does it understand humanism? That is my view
What kind of period was this during the time of Shah Tahmasb in Tabriz and with that Safavid power, why did he choose this period?
There are so many of them in our paintings, I believe they have not been studied from this perspective.
It may be my point of view and it is very wrong, but because I saw and pictured these
Every little thing can help us, we should not continue the art of our past
But we can learn from it, our painting has different dimensions, which is the process
Shah Tahmasb, who later saw that he could not learn painting, gave up
There is a letter that I think Behzad wrote the letter that my dear we worked here from morning to night, we have worked for years
Shah Tahmasb and Shahnameh worked on that beauty or military
Two valuable books that were illustrated and then returned to Iran, I also saw them up close and many works that remain in the metropolis and other places and these are debatable
And after the capital was transferred to Qazvin, Tabriz ended and was shut down
I suggest that when Shah Abbas goes from Qazvin to Isfahan, the formation there is different.
Reza Abbasi argues, we have the influences of the West and Europe
Even a copy of one of Sistine’s works, which we can say is that sleeping women, where Venus is, and here are the women of Shah Abbas’s period.
I can say this 98%, now with 100% certainty, not that, they are only dressed here, but there is the role of Venus
Even the shape of the arms and legs is the same, that is, the influence that the West has exerted even on our painting
Venetian painters influenced the court of Shah Abbas
And Tabriz is silent, I want to say that Isfahan is silent, it is the same today, but Tabriz is over
In my opinion, small activities have been done in a period, but it is not an indicator
A complete blackout takes about 400 years to come and form a conservatory
And now the look is more modern and new, now let’s not say modernism because it is debatable
– You, who inferred from these studies, did not understand why they died or these sensitive points? Why did this happen and why did they not rejoice?
You see, the Mongol era was a very bitter era, that is, when you look at the architecture of that era
In Tabriz, people are nervous and angry it was not a very good time, it was horror
And the painters were influenced by this and went for pictures that show the situation of that time in this way.
At one point, I just sat down and looked at the death knell in our painting
That mortal thought existed in the East, take from Egypt and ancient times that mortal thought was originally a ritual
It was a taziyeh ceremony that was performed for the pharaohs and there are no pictures of it at all. There are women who are paid for that day.
In fact, the Egyptian myth of death means a world that does not think, and this thinking has grown a lot
Even in terms of painting, I can give examples where there is a general idea of the East in Egypt 1500.
We do not look at art as reality, I do not want to recreate the thinking of the outside world
What came to Rome from Greece, the Romans were looking for, they were looking to revive reality
That is to say, they drew molds from the dead and objectified, now what was in Greece as idealism
In Rome they really wanted to do that, that is, illusion, the paintings became illusion
They decorate the room in such a way that you think the space has expanded
That is, the murals made from Pompeii and Herculaneum look like this.
Do you think that there is a window in this wall that you can see outside of that space?
This is European thinking, and I think it goes as far as Picasso as it does today
Picasso was really looking for reality in Cubism, I have seen this trend
Because I came and arranged Picasso paintings in periodicals and diaries
When he went to see the Anthropological Museum of African Art, he was impressed by it, which is exactly what he said. How I saw and was horrified, that is, they were also impressed.
Then he came and painted a woman, twisted the woman, her face could be seen, part of her breasts could be seen, part of her back and buttocks could be seen, her legs could also be seen.
That is to say, the twister who says that from this point of view, he has not yet reached that composite and analytical Cubism, he is still in the early stages of work.
This woman is twisted and wants to show the truth, that is, not to show a level, Picasso is doing the same
Then he comes and breaks them into pieces, that is, the painter spins around the model, saying, “Let me go back, that’s it.”
Picasso is turning around and tearing it apart and complicating it, experiencing it.
In my opinion, in terms of content, it is what Roman thought that came, it is that which exists in Europe.
But what is it like in the East, we do not have it in the East
There is a painting in Egypt for about 1500 BC, it is a pond and there are fish and there are trees.
The pond is right in the shape of a rectangle, right in front of us, they thought objectively
You can find this very rarely because there is rationalism, there is rationality.
He knows the painting is rational, he says the pool is like this, the water is flowing
He does not understand the image, but the East knows the image, the imagination is for him
He says, oh, what a pond, a line can be seen, the pond means this, the fish are also in it.
It kills the tree like this and completely, just arranging the trees around the pond
Well, if he sees the pond like this, they should also see the tree from above, but they should not see it
He sees the tree correctly, he does not see in the angle, he sees the whole
He picks the tree and sees the pond and the pond as a whole, and the fish that are inside it, the same thing exists in our painting.
Part 11
Art is life, it can not be touched, when I say I enjoy a movie, I can not show its size or quantity
When I enjoy a work of art, color and self I can not show how much I enjoy or how much of a work it is
One is that the artist himself enjoys a work of art and art is part of his life, not just painting but all the arts.
And art is not just a painting, we are all surrounded by art, it is a matter within me how to enjoy art
Some people enjoy it more than I do, I really do not believe it
After a while, I saw some people who were old and they came and said, “Who were you to paint us? There were many.”
They say we were students and we saw your work in the magazine, we archived, we worked and we enjoyed
Today, art has different dimensions and it is not like the period when there is no art, it is the same now, but in a very complex way.
In the Paleolithic period, man could not have lived exactly without art
An intelligent hunter could not live without art, that is, he was the one who killed virtually so that he could hunt in reality.
If he did not do virtual hunting and did not do that basic ritual, he could not kill the truth, art was exactly involved in their lives.
The relationship of art with modern man is also different in different eras
It is natural that in the time of Louis XIV a peasant had his own art
That art was not very neat and aristocratic
But today it is very large, this mobile phone is in his hand every day
Art relations with human beings are different, we used to go to the cinema, when we went we would sit for 2-3 seconds and watch the movie again.
After a while, we saw the same movies again, but now we are bored to see a movie from beginning to end.
Time has accelerated, I think it has become very tight
Traditional art has certain frameworks that it cannot go beyond
The reason is that this framework, like our poetry, the structure must change over time
In my opinion, the structures of that time could not show today
Unless we, the restorers, are reading this for the restoration of works of art
Today, these are not moving, the structure with the content, the form and the content must be coordinated.
For example, we can not sometimes come and put a human being in that framework, he did not answer at all and no one could do it
Or let’s come and put the same issues of the past, for example, the Shahnameh in front of us and illustrate it again
In what form? With the same and repeating them? We did not work very hard
Eastern man is wearing, he is wearing hijab, they are in the boxes, and this is not the key to these boxes, and in the end we can not understand all the dimensions of the problem.
He does not know man, he does not know Eastern man completely, he has things in his brain that he takes with him
For example, when we read Hafez, we say that anyone can have any interpretation of it.
The poets of the world may be like this, but they are very neat
Western man is naked like the art that was formed in Greece
It is naked, which means I can recount all my issues, that is, there is nothing hidden behind the curtain and nothing is hidden.
But this is very important to us, there are so many private issues that no one raises at all, like Marquez’s book of the year.
Who was a woman who was in love and died and then they would go and see each other once a year on an island
It was a secret thing, well Daddy loved him but he could not say that
If we want to keep our identity, now it’s a very complicated discussion, this identity, we have to sit down and do this.
It is a very complex debate, for example, do we believe in history and the past? Do we understand history at all, or is history acceptable to us or is it rejected?
What I’m doing today is part of that identity, I think
For example, we sit down and see what kind of hair these artists think, and this thinking may or may not happen.
Well this at all Levels have to be done, for example you think in Russia they wrote books on the history of literature but some were removed
How much of Dostoevsky was written in the books, he was removed altogether because he is a disappointing author
Or remove Kafka, for example, because he did not agree with that ideology
If this is the case, at least we will reach a strange place, that is, this is not the truth anymore, this is the identity, and in the identity there must be a truth.
If we delete all the authors, delete the posts, how can we identify based on these patterns?
For example, we censor the spiritual Masnavi, so how do we keep our identity?
– What will be our identity?
I think cultures eat each other, western culture and culture that is active, culture that does a lot of propaganda can eat and digest that one
Unless that culture is so fruitful that both eat each other up and dissolve into each other
Why does Greece not die? Because it is so strong and fruitful, now in the sense that I say it is fruitful
It has shown itself in different eras, it has gone underground and fire has been reduced to ashes, but as we turn the pages of history, we see that it has shown itself.
Where did the neoclassical debate come from? How does the renaissance come about? This is Greece
It reappears later in the French Revolution and then again in the twentieth century
In novels and literature, for example, where did Ulysses come from? This is because of its fertility, some cultures that have no baggage will soon disappear.
You go to Tabriz and say who he is, if they understand and know, who knows me?
They used to tell me, for example, I used to go to places where they said do you know anyone? Are you a painter?
I know someone but I do not mention his name, for example, it is a painting that works in the market
I mean, his level of thinking is so high, he did not have very deep information, but they did not know me, who was doing serious work.
You go to Tabriz and tell the writers how much they know, when they did not leave a street named after Sultan Mohammad, how can people communicate with it?
I mean, a museum does not make sense to have a contemporary museum, we did these things, but they did not create it among the people.
For example, we came and enlarged the painting of Sultan Mohammad’s period by half a meter and told him to establish a foundation and put these there as well.
And every year there is an exhibition and then there is a lecture and you collect his books and there is a foundation that they did not do well.
There has to be a place where people can communicate
But when we see Europe, why is this happening in Europe? Because I think it has its roots in Greece
Why did I go and study art history? It was mostly because these comparisons came to me
Why are they like that, the same question you ask came to me
And I saw my roots in Greece, I saw my roots in Mesopotamia
Mesopotamian thinking, Egyptian thinking, these have had a great impact on our culture
There was a gallery until Greek culture, there was dialogue, there was art among the people, the streets were full of art
It developed in this way until you see the European Renaissance, where the streets are full of sculptures.
Well, we also have art, but not that way, the pleasure we get from tiling mosques, these are arts, but they are destroying them today.
You see, the structure of the city in terms of architecture and urban planning, where is Tabriz known?
– Its market?
Yes, you see, this structure fell apart for a variety of reasons, mostly due to trade
Do you see how many chickpeas and chickpeas we sell in Tabriz, for example? What do I want to do, how much do they want to build a market?
This is not calculated urbanization, in the center of the city the buildings have also gone up
Well, these are issues that we did not think about identity, and this is a very important issue that we destroyed, there is no hope.
I wrote an introduction to an exhibition I did in the United States, that is, I was asked to do so
I believe that the painting of the East plays a role in this situation, and it is true
Eastern thinking is more correct and productive than art and painting
How did more art return to this type of art in the twentieth century?
In other words, the view of the East received a lot of attention, so that the West has the same issues in the twentieth century
Now let’s come to terms with whether we are innovators ourselves. No, I do not see this
We bring back most of the moves that are happening in Europe and the United States here that we also have
Well, you said from the beginning, not that there would be an issue and you would come in and repeat it again and say that I had it too.
Based on their performance, you can prove your art
If we start first and do the same thing so that the world is shocked, yes, but why not? Can we export our knowledge to the world? Do we have to have art?
Do we really know? Do we have knowledge? Not everyone in the world has knowledge, but many countries export knowledge
And art can be created in those countries, but we do not have it, and when we do not have it, well, we import more art.
That means you have to think about when we made the video art, when there are moves there then we can do it here
I mean, they do the performance there, then we do it here, so what kind of innovation is that?
Or calligraphy, calligraphy is introduced in Europe and then our calligraphy becomes a work on canvas
Then the lines get bigger, he says someone did this in Europe and he worked in Chinese, let us work too
I mean, if we start from the beginning, well, this will be discussed, very good things will be done, and in my opinion, this is not a problem either.
But we could not be innovators, and many today can not, and many may disagree with me.
Part 12
My imaginary world is not the real world, it is a very beautiful world, the reality of my world is ugly and painful, this is the reality
But my mental world is a very sweet world, very lovable, I can not match them, they did not fit together
They never met because it can’t, sometimes I get together because I’m not alone, once I was alone but a man can not be alone
My son is a real life in front of my eyes, sometimes in my imaginary world where, for example, our future will be good, there is a utopia in my mind that I live with and if not, I will commit suicide.
For example, I think of the days I went to places I enjoyed a lot, with a Jian or Renault car that went all the way north and the car was not punctured.
I came home and got up in the morning and saw that Renault had been punctured and how much we enjoyed that Renault.
I wish for the same day again today, I always think about the past, now maybe those days were not good either
But I polish and erase those elements, I become more hopeful that my life will improve and I will go to nature, which is very enjoyable for me.
I am not satisfied with myself because I did not become who I should have been, I would like everything to be ideal, not for me personally, society to be ideal and I to be among them
Bozar wrote a letter to me, asked me and said, “Come here, he has a letter, he was in the best condition, they took my black work and showed it and wrote a letter to me.”
Why didn’t I go? Well, those were my problems, I once realized that the artist himself had to learn and propagate
There was a time when we were running away from radio and television, we were still arrogant
The radio invited me and I said I will not come, I will not go again now, the radio and television invite me but I say I have nothing to do, I’m sorry, because I do not want to make a joke
Time is short for me, it was a long time, you are almost my age
There was a time when one could not say at all how long a year lasts, I am short of time these days
With each passing day, I see and calculate, as the year draws to a close, I calculate and evaluate how much I have done and what I should do
Life is not pleasant for me, I do not take any common pleasure, except for the moments when I go to nature.
Again, when I go back to the city, the car and the crowds and these break my nerves, I do not understand these, these make me tired
Because I’m a free person, I want to go and be comfortable, one of my idealistic dreams is that he is very idealistic and I can not believe it.
Our society is unbalanced in terms of perception and the distribution of wealth is unbalanced
Someone who is ignorant lives in prosperity, it’s weird what do we do
And then a person who gives his life and has humanity and justice, is one of the most miserable people.
So what do I do, how do I hope? It is that the insurgency has taken root, this can be seen a lot in our society
Do you think that if inflation disappears, it will be 1 Rial, 1 Rial, that is, 1 Rial on the first of April, and 1 Rial at the end of March, you think what will happen?
Peace, tranquility, love, we would not even bother, if the value of one thousand tomans remains the same thousand tomans
Right in the economy, it is important that one thousand tomans does not remain the same thousand tomans at the end of March
If this is true, of course it is not the only one, where did we get used to it, how can we get rid of this habit?
I’m greedy for disorder, I’m stifled in my driving, a person who obeys the law is called a blasphemer, I’ve seen a lot of this
– To follow the law or not?
Observe, I observe that I do, for example, write the speed of 60 km, well, I increase my speed to 60, it beeps from behind and then it comes to me and curses and leaves
I’m wondering what to do, God, it says 60 km here
Well I have to live, I can not kill myself, I can not save myself, I became addicted, I am really addicted
You see, I’m involved in everything, I’m involved right now, I could not say no, I’m not coming and I’m not working, what should I do?
I can not say I’m tired, I do not want to teach, I want to go back, I want to get up in the morning and read my favorite book
Because I’m regular, I’m not going to get it right
I will be in class at 8 o’clock, because these students hate me at all
They say you can not get sick and not come to class, do not come to class one day
I always go on time and I come on time and I go earlier than everyone and I come back later than everyone, well this is painful anymore
– Mr. Kiast is sitting here and he wants to ask you a question, what question should he ask you?
Regarding these questions, you see, I was kind of involved and confused, let me give this example, it is interesting why I can not ask questions and why I can not think at all.
You see, once upon a time we wanted to take a cat somewhere and lose it, we would take it and spin it and spin it and then drop it.
This cat was losing its direction, it did not understand at all and its brain was shaking, Yahoo was thrown and it was going in one direction.
I’m like that cat now, I’ve lost my way, they’ve really turned me around so much that I’re neither bored with life nor bored with work
I fell into a river that takes me, I’m really walking like this and it takes me
And my artwork is in the same situation, I’m not very calm, Alki, I’m not saying these things, this situation really exists
There are very few moments that I can be comfortable with
My father used to say that it was a face painting, my father would ask who these faces are. He said that these are the faces of some people
My father used to say why didn’t they take their painting? He used to say that when someone’s father died, he would come the next day and say, “Enlarge my father’s picture.”
Then I realized that it was still hot, I would kill it and put it there, but they would not come to Taqashi anymore.
This is our work, this is the work of the artist, in a while they come and look for a person and a person is warm and needed, but then he forgets
Because there is no cultural or social need for it, money is value, and in a society where value is based on money and capital is respected, so be it.
What surprises you the most in the world right now?
What if it happened?
– No, for example, something is happening right now, in the midst of what is happening, what surprises you the most?
This is a proverb that they say to take a donkey and then give the donkey back to a person to be happy, it makes them happy, what can we do? The world is like this.
Part 13
The war has started, I remember that the first Iraqi planes that came, I also saw the pilot
I mean, I came out and saw that they were moving very close, it was a very backward plane that came to hit the airport and the power plant and this and that.
Those days were very difficult for me, that is, I worked day and night, and sometimes the conditions were dangerous, which means that the plane came and went.
He knocked down and destroyed one of the newly opened posts
And I was one of those people who, within a week, had launched a large part of what was being divided.
The thought of systematizing that time had also begun for me
Because one of the ideals I had before the revolution was my work environment, and after we got to construction I used the right management.
One of the problems was that the equipment was destroyed, exploded, and I worked around the clock for a week and then everyone was cheered on.
In meetings I said what kind of work do you do when something is distorted and you reward it?
This is a management problem, I said that these should be planned according to the catalogs of its time
When the car oil has to be changed, it has to be done at the same time, we must not let time pass
They said start well, I said I want someone to work with me
There was a woman who was an engineer at the time, they introduced her, I was also the head of repairs and they told her to work with her.
He came and I explained my work to him and said that I want all the parts of the equipment catalog maintenance to be translated.
Now I say why I say these things because it is necessary, I said you have to translate these
And write down the specific tools he needs, how long we should work, what we should do daily
You have to figure out what to do per week, per month, per year, and what to do in 10 years
Then that lady brought these next week, we had a meeting together and I saw how it was arranged and how carefully it was done.
He has a very good language and he translated everything I asked for, he has a very good knowledge
We said it’s all over, he can live with me, I said I want the pictures too, which is what I had from art
I said you have to take a picture of each piece and stick it there, we made a native notebook
It was beautiful, that is, we would open it and say what we should do this week, and that’s why we wrote the program for each day.
For example, which car goes tomorrow morning, how much equipment does it take, everything was clear and this program started to move forward
We had very good success at that time and at the same time it was successful for us and I made the offer and it was accepted and they are my wife.
And they are really a literate woman, a manager, and for about a year now they have been the only woman vice president of a planning and budgeting company.
And I’m very happy for him and proud of his literacy and intelligence
Unfortunately, it was 2 years ago that I got sick and my life was ruined
I thank God that he is well and he is being treated, it is a pity that they are not really my wife because they are literate, good and faithful.
Sometimes I would say take a sheet of paper and work at home, he would say I can not do this for office, so that he has a clear mind
He has no opposition to my art and we know each other well, we are very close morally
But it’s natural that I have a stronger human and sociological perspective, even though they also studied electronics management and electricity, but well I did.
We have a lot in common, I tried very hard to experience and respect my wife in life.
I even made a mistake, I’m really ashamed of the mistake I made in my life
– When did you get married?
I offer my service to you on August 7, 1987
– Can you say when was the most important day of your whole life or the most decisive day of your life, where was it and what was it? A day that is very decisive for you
I did not have many happy days, if I tell you we will go back to my private life
For example, it was a happy event for me, despite the sadness that about a month ago in the tests that my wife was doing,
He said that the scan should be done again
We went and did it in despair, I went and got the result myself, I did not take my wife
I was very nervous that day because I had to leave at 2 o’clock to get the result
You think that one foot came and one foot went and I was very disappointed, I had very little hope
I went there and asked for the result, a good lady worked there, picked up the result and said are your notebooks here?
I said no, left in the car, he said bring the notebook next time I write it
Then I said, “Well, what is the result, madam?”
See this moment, believe me, I wanted to kiss this lady for thanks, it was a world of happiness for me and I can not say her size
And I said I’m going to get the booklet right now, and the first thing I did was call Flora
And I said that nothing happened and I read it to you, he was happy and we went to the doctor with joy
It was very pleasing to me, I can not measure it with money, no I really can not because it is not an art discussion
Because of this situation that has happened to my wife, we have to go to nature every week
We mostly go to the mountains and nature and walk, in the wind and the cold and in the flowers, we talk and fall in love there.
I enjoy it very much and my wife enjoys it as if she was born again
We used to not go to nature so much, we were not so alone together, we did not love each other so much
And I confessed the day I was happy and I told him that, in those moments when we were alone in nature.
I do not go to the radio, we listen to the music of nature, I said to see how lovingly these two sparrows talk to each other, and they answer each other, we feel them together
I told him that life is here, like that Forough’s poem, life is not strange, man can
I say, isn’t there a place in this world where we can go and live in a 6.4 room and let go of everything?
My wife snored at night, I woke her up that I could not sleep because I was sensitive
When he was sick, his voice did not come, he was awake, I was in pain for him to snore again and now he is snoring and I will not wake him.
I did not really come here to mourn, I am telling the truth, this is what one feels with one’s skin and flesh
I’m weak, yes, I’m emotional, what do I do, kill myself? I do not want to be a hero
I could not have emotion, I could be anti-human, that’s the fact that happened to me today
I do what I do really lovingly, I have been working for the exhibition I work for for 1 year.
About man, suspended man, exploded man, man whose task is not clear, man who kills another man, a disfigured man
Inshallah, I exhibit in Sarban and they are not for sale, when I think of selling, I say to myself that I do not have good money.
All this work, all this teaching, all this work, I can not be a broker, I could not be a wrestler, I do not know
I do not know and I do not want to be a charlatan, this is my life
My lady, with that pain and illness, I went alone for her chemotherapy
I was in pain and what nights I did not sleep, I said I do not want anything and I just asked God for health
Well then after all this we started going to nature, I said this is a test in this world but I am always thankful
I do not know from one point of view it is possible to be very rational and say that it is nonsense
But I want to be able to live and continue, in the hardships, so what did I take refuge in in those nights and days?
My wife underwent chemotherapy 6 times and it was not a joke, I went to her and brought her, it was not a joke
Every test we went to to get results were crises that I really do not know, these are stories that happened in my life and I had no idea that I would fall into this day.
And when they see these paintings, they say why do you kill ugly, why do you kill horrible, why do you despair?
Well, what can I do, this is my world, and in the future, if they see my work, they will understand what happened to me during this period.
I am an example, an example of the community in which I live
I have nothing to do with anything, I may have done something wrong, I did not stretch my limbs, but I pulled painfully and I pulled what I felt
Two years passed and I could not believe that he was leaving me, but since 1992, when I realized that he was sick, I was with him.
And that was the best and most romantic time of my life
In all the time we were together for about 29 years, but the last few years we were together after his illness, I had a different situation.
I would wake up at night and look at him and see that he was asleep, well, I was in a lot of pain inside too.
I went and took all his tests, all the hospital work, I was fully admitted until the last moment
I did not bring a nurse and I took care of her myself, I did everything, it means I was completely thin
But I said that if you are in bed like this all your life, I will serve you and he was satisfied with me.
He is still by my side, I have his picture in my bag, it’s my whole life