Reza Lavassani
Audio of the Entire Interview
Interview Transcript
Part 01
I was born in Sarcheshmeh, Imamzadeh Yahya neighborhood
Our family was very traditional, strictly religious and law-abiding
It’s interesting, now this is one of the same things that when I see an image in front of me, how do I see the image?
I see how much it is theirs, mine is not so personal, like my dad’s or my aunt’s.
They were very big in the place, for example, I remember that my aunt and father, when they got together, they would all talk about the memories of the period of Ahmad Shah and the period of Naser al-Din Shah.
Because they were basically the same age and the way they looked at the image they even chose to show at home was something.
Basically, they didn’t draw pictures, even if they did, it was a series of specific things
And they had a great impact on people, just like our neighborhood
Just as Khomona put it, the shape of the house we had, the shape of the garden, the basement, and the rooms that were there, were very interesting to me.
This created something for me that I actually understand now, I didn’t understand then.
I didn’t even like it then, I really didn’t like it
Now I see how interesting it was, but I directly understood, for example, how a person looked at a picture in the Qajar period.
How did they see the image, did they see it as a form? Did they see any meaning?
It was through the conversation they had, none of them were painters, they were ordinary people and local businessmen, but you could understand their beliefs.
Basically, the beliefs were of a certain type, imagine that you are going to school every day and pass Bagh Imamzadeh
Every morning you go and come back in the afternoon and then you go and come again
And during that, unconsciously, things happen in a person, in general, a person sees a ceremony that cannot be repeated anywhere else.
And during the time this ceremony is performed there, people come
At the same time, for example, they held a Thursday market in the same area where Imamzadeh is
People used to gather and spread out all over the Imamzadeh, or on Friday nights, as we say, then go back and forth in these places.
Or the ceiling of the bazaar, which I clearly remember that there was a light in the ceiling of the bazaar that had a hole and it fell to the ground.
And then in this movement the dust slowly became clear, it was so strange to me that I always thought that it was possible to go into the air through this hole.
It’s different for me now, I think wisely, but at the time it was always fascinating to me that this was happening.
These are the images he creates, images that I now understand are not surrealistic
There are other images, it creates another kind of image
For example, I remember that we learned how to ride this scooter, I remember that we used to make this ourselves.
I distinctly remember going to buy bearings from these stupid rustlers.
We put it in oil, shook it for a week until it was this way, then we oiled it and used wood.
And we used to annoy people because the noise was too much and our alleys were not asphalted, they were ordinary alleys with cobblestones in some places, and we made noise.
I remember that, for example, when we made these, everyone decorated it by themselves, that is, everyone made it in the same way.
With the same tools we had, it didn’t matter if everyone made something better or something worse
But with these, sometimes one worked a combination that was a little more attractive
I think these were things that were inside the person, maybe, I can’t say for sure that it is like that, but it was anyway.
I remember that, for example, there was a delegation in our neighborhood and it was so attractive to me that I made a flag for it myself.
I wanted to make a flag myself and write on it
I remember that we used to go to Kharazi in the neighborhood, we would get cloth and sew it with thread, and then I had to write something on it.
It was interesting, I mean, what I am about to say were things that seemed to be inside me that I should do, these events themselves.
I remember that the claws that they put, for example, were very attractive to me.
In our neighborhood, for example, when it was Ashura and Tasua, there was always a lot of breast-feeding when we went.
Then they brought a series of things that we showed how beautiful they are
It was a series of signs and the things that happened to it, it was so cute that I still like it, it’s still interesting to me.
We passed elementary school, then we went to secondary school, one of my friends came and said that there is a high school where you can draw and they will give you a diploma.
He said do you paint? I said, is it possible? He said yes, I said it means physics, chemistry, nothing? He said no
I said oh oh, this is my place because I didn’t understand math at all, I was always a person who had no understanding of math, I still don’t understand math.
I like math, but I understand geometry better, I remember well that’s why I went to painting
Because he doesn’t have physics and chemistry and now, for example, we get another diploma
After I went, of course, it was different, it gradually became attractive to me, I went and it was not painting, but graphics.
The first 2 years were normal and we studied basics and various other topics
Then, when we reached the third to fourth year, we could choose a field for the last 2 years
For example, some people chose decorations, so-called interior design today
Some people chose graphics, for us it was like this, that is, the field of painting did not mean that
Or, for example, he didn’t have a sculpture field, it wasn’t visualization, we were supposed to learn a series of service jobs.
For example, after I went to college, my major was painting
But before that, we were supposed to learn a series of things to do something when we entered the community
It was completely functional, it was not as much art as it is now, for example, painting
For example, when I arrived in the second year, it was interesting for me, it became really interesting
It became so attractive that my work and life became the same.
I mean, I had a wonderful feeling that it happened in the right place, at first I didn’t know at all, but then it became interesting to me.
The way that, for example, about the art of reading was very interesting and serious for me
At the conservatory or high school we used to go to, they used to say that it was a university
But when I got my diploma, there was a cultural revolution and the university was closed, so I joined the army
I went to the army for 2 years and when I came back, I had already read a lot of books in the army because we had time
Then I went and registered for the university and I went to Tehran University, Faculty of Fine Arts
In 1964, I went to university, when I entered, I understood the atmosphere of serious work
Before that, because he was alone, he did some work, for example, in our conservatory, no one worked at all, and I thought that I knew something.
When I went to university, I saw that it was much more serious, which means that I was actually more motivated to work
We sketched almost anywhere we hung out, traveling with the kids was the same.
It was very interesting for me to work and improve, now, for example, we watch 2 movies in the middle, we watch a theater.
Let’s read books, among these other things, then it was limited to the same things that I am presenting, almost always the same things happened to us, there was nothing more for me.
It was interesting to me that I would put a bowl of fruit and then I would start and perform all kinds of things that could be done.
At that time, it was not very common to have an exhibition, for example, the second year of university, and it was not fashionable to have an exhibition early.
That’s why we practically did the work for ourselves
We searched a lot, the thing that was very attractive to me was that one had to search all the time
I think there was a part of it that was interesting in those years when we went
Something called, for example, identity was very important, identity
The interesting thing about this identity for me was that anyway I had to read a poem, read a book, know a movie, know these things little by little.
One has to know architecture more or less to understand what identity is
At first, one becomes fascinated by those images that exist, one thinks that the identity means, for example, Feth Ali Shah, for example, Betejaghe.
These are identities, they are very true, but what I am saying is that I am forced to think and do it.
For example, is it the same today or not because we learned over time and They taught us the history of art
Then you would understand that during this time they have grown, changed and still have an identity
Then how I see this today, I didn’t actually grow this, of course we used it as usual.
And it was very interesting for me to sit down and actually work continuously
If we didn’t work, we didn’t feel happy, now I understand that most of the technique was attractive to us in what we did.
It was a very interesting technique than this thing called, for example, understanding the story
Now I say that it has been a long time since the technique was attractive to us
For example, we used to think how interesting he did this and then we tried to do that.
When we were doing that, we thought, well, I got it too
In the event that he had entered this image field from another world and we did not understand that world
Or at least I didn’t understand that, for example, a betjejah came to this shape over a long period of time
But when I drew the check mark, I thought that, well, I understood now
Now a little more accurate or worse, now good or bad but I thought I knew
It takes a long time for one to understand that I saw it as a technique or even looked at it as a form, I could not see it in any way.
Even if I read about its meanings, that is, the meanings that I read, I still looked at it in a form.
I read its meanings so that if someone asked me, for example, I would say what it is
If I didn’t understand that, he explained it to me
Of course, for example, learning anatomy, line, surface and light was always interesting to me, it is still interesting
I mean, I still see a good work, I say oh how interesting because you understand how hard people work to achieve it.
A younger person is quicker to say what he doesn’t know
Then, when one gets older, one realizes that no, it is not like that
Many people know a lot and it takes a long time to get there
In the final years of college, I don’t remember who it was, someone came and said, “Are you an illustrator?”
I said I don’t know at all, I don’t understand what it is
Then he gave me a text and I started working on that text
It was interesting that it was accepted and published the first time
But really, when I started illustrating, this matter was important to me
I remember that when I was coming from the Faculty of Fine Arts, our house was the source
There were many bookstores when I passed this road, there was a bookstore that I remember that printed religious books.
I remember standing next to him and thinking that the fact that he was publishing a religious book and they were also illustrating it was not very interesting to me.
Then I thought why not, then I remember that I went and started
Basically, the most work I did in the field of illustration is religious illustration
The most effort I made was in this area, a part of it was mystical and religious.
Then I started working on it to see if it could be done or not
I think I did something in it and a small room fell
which later became a standard for some who worked later
But I remember that I continued and I didn’t draw any more after a year
I started to work coherently and directly, just this, in fact, fine art
I worked on it and held my first exhibition when I was 32 years old
I mean, he wasn’t 25 years old, I knew a bit, but at the age of 32, I had my first exhibition
He is very embarrassed that these works can be shown or not, by the way, I can show them to you.
I mean, I still have them and then it started like this, the next exhibitions until today
Part 02
When the college ended, there were no more grades, now we had to sit down and start working.
I started slowly and thought, where am I? what am i who am i What should I think?
Then, for example, I am a certain place with certain beliefs and convictions and these things that I have, how much can it be expressed in my work?
It has been manifested in a period of our history, but it is not in my work
I’m working pretty much like another person, I’m totally working like that
Then I must have had the evidence that the world is like this today, I should work like that too
Then I think that the world is like this, but I, for example, live in a specific land anyway.
How should this work of mine be connected to this land?
There is a time when it is connected by its appearance, that is, the existing appearance
For example, think that I take Reza Abbasi and work with oil paint and magnify it, it’s another method.
At one point you think how to think about the world
In order to understand how he thought about the world, you have to learn a series of topics
To see how they thought in this period
As close as possible to this, so that I can continue that story
How to approach because for me the most interesting thing I think is poetry
That is, it seemed to me that if I wanted to get close to these, poetry and more than ever the Persian language became a problem for me.
It still is, now more I even think I understand it and then less but I understood that it was the language that brought this about.
However, there were many definitions, especially in the modern period, it was said that the work should be without literature
But I always said why it shouldn’t be, anyway, I think with this language
It can’t be, I think with this language and everything I do is like this unless I try not to think with this language.
When I try not to think with this language, I inevitably think with another language
When I think of that language, my visual language will be Elkan
It cannot be the correct language, these were not very clear to me, but I understood, and now it is clearer
After this incident, I determined for myself that I must go and read poetry
When a person reads poetry, he realizes that these schools, which are, for example, Khorasani, Iraqi, followed by, for example, Indian.
And then the period of return and this is what happens, and then the period of new poetry
One can understand the effect of these in the picture
These effects that one notices, then one understands that, for example, I at least think that I did not go astray.
Maybe I didn’t get anywhere, but I didn’t go astray
For example, when you see the structure of a sonnet, it has one stanza and one stanza at the end, which apparently have nothing to do with each other.
They are separate, but they are connected from top to bottom, from here to there
You enter a whole space, just like when you read the Shahnameh, because it is a Masnavi.
He tells a story bit by bit, he starts telling a story
When you see the view of your work and image from the perspective of Masnavi, you make it one way, and when you see it from the perspective of Ghazal, you make it another way.
I am saying what I am saying because they have a structure
That’s why you see that even handicrafts change, for example, look at calligraphy, it changes over time.
The line changes over time, even though they want to write the same thing
When it comes to, for example, the 10th century, there is no doubt that they wrote the text of the Shahnameh, but at one point they wrote a copy.
They write the Shahnameh with Nashq, at the same time they write the Shahnameh with Nastaliq, why is this done? I think it all comes down to language
How important it is for one to think about the Persian language itself, to think about the life of the Persian language
I always thought that how they did it is a mystery to us
Well, the Shahnameh of Shah Tahmasb was translated into Persian, but why is a mystery to me
Now I think that because we think less about Persian language, we cannot understand it
Like if some people read Khaqani, for example, it might be difficult for them
Some people read Saadi, it will be difficult and they will not be able to communicate because they think in Persian language today.
He must go and study the language of that period so that he can enjoy it later
Then it becomes familiar to him, a series of words are said in it that have changed today, their meanings have changed.
This is what happened in the picture, if I say this, it means that it was unclear to me at that time, but I thought it was important.
I thought that now how can this take a visual form? It needs a structure
The need for structure means that you must first understand how the shape of the sonnet is, how this language is formed.
How are these things related when we call one thing a ghazal, the same thing with a series of back and forth, we call the same words epic.
Let’s put the word here and there, it is different, then I saw that it was different in its structure
It is that structure that is interesting, this same structure enters the painting
Within 300 years, various image forms have been created
Why is it like this? This happens in the field of language, when the language changes, its appearance also changes.
Just as you see in architecture, for example, when the language builds the Isfahan Jame Mosque, how does it come together and the Sheikh Lotfollah Mosque comes into existence?
This is another garlic, how is this garlic formed?
In my opinion, the people of that period thought about this language, they looked at it from this point of view
That’s why I say, for example, Reza Abbasi, I think, see what I’m saying is the real time that tells me whether you thought right or wrong.
For example, my effort is to start from where I think another type of design was not done.
First, in order to understand it, I had to go back a little, to reach, for example, Sani al-Molk.
How did this happen after that, what would I do if it was me after that?
What was I doing with this picture, what was happening in it?
Because, for example, after that, when it reaches Kamalul Molk, I don’t understand it anymore
Because this story he is telling is not understandable for me anymore
That is, he is telling a story that is more or less similar to Orientalists, his way of looking
But for example, for Sani al-Molk, who is Kamal al-Molk’s uncle and is a little far from him, he looks like a different person.
My reason is the same, I used to give myself reasons on how not to do this
Imagine that an Englishman can do what Kamal-ul-Molk did
But an Englishman can’t think that way about what Sani al-Molk did
For example, Sultan Mohammad can’t think like that at all, no matter what he does, he can’t
When he can’t, he finds a connection in a language and land
I think that if we have a release for the world, from that point of view we can give a release to the world.
In fact, increase the image storage of the world
Part 03
Sometimes, for example, I say a verse of Hafez’s poem like this every day for maybe a month
Sometimes I have read it before, I have been reading Hafez’s poetry since I was 10 years old, but now I understand that it is something amazing.
And the visual example comes to my mind more and then it directs my searches, my searches go in that direction.
Because it’s hard for me, for example, to know the basics of visual arts and how to do this bit by bit with what I think is more real.
I got together and something happened, this is actually after about 20 years that have passed since the end of our course.
Now I understand that, for example, I went two steps, I took one step, I will repeat the example like this, that is, I want to tell a picture.
Now you think, for example, Hafez said poetry, first they used to write with copies
After that, it took 200 years for the visual equivalent of that poem to appear in architecture, painting and calligraphy
Because it is so hard, like everything that descends, then we want to lift it up, it will be very difficult.
This happens in the material world, you have a meaning and you want to give that meaning a material form
It will take a long time for this to be the same as the elementary one
For example, Hafez of the 8th century wrote a poem, 2 centuries ago, to make the equivalent of, for example, Sheikh Latfullah as his equivalent.
Or, for example, Abdul Majid Darvish’s handwriting is the visual equivalent of Hafez’s poetry
Because it is so strange and beautiful and special, you can see Abdul Majid’s writings, mostly you can’t read them.
It is in the form of dust, but it is very beautiful, just like Hafez’s poem
That is, if you want to say that the embodiment of Hafez’s poetry is one of him
In my opinion, another one can be, for example, Sheikh Lotfollah Mosque, it is the embodiment of Hafez’s poetry
The image is embodied in architecture
At one time, people started depicting or designing the elements that were around them
For example, we did not design the tree, we did not design the person, we did not design the table.
We didn’t design very simple things, we went and brought a bunch of other things and put them in place
I think the first thing I set for myself, I don’t know if I will live long at all, is to start designing elements.
From the part, not from the whole, from the smallest forms, if this part is a good part, the whole will be inside it.
But let’s see how I can design these elements that were designed in every historical period.
And to put it close to the language, I have this mostly for myself now
I look at a tree, I start to design the tree, not from the perspective of Western visual arts language, which, for example, the tree looks like that.
From the perspective of a person who speaks Persian and how he looked at this
I have a concept in my mind, for example, since 30 years ago, since 30 years ago, I worked on this concept bit by bit, and it went wrong, I worked and it went wrong.
A small one has been made in one place, I said, well, that’s it, now what about the rest
We worked again and it didn’t happen, it didn’t happen, but this little one became 2, 3, 5, bit by bit, it reached a place.
I think this has become a little clearer in some points
Maybe it’s still very unclear, but it’s clearer to me now
For example, the horses that I drew have a certain color, if you see that color
You will notice how much it has come and grown, in general, the places of the legs and hands, these came and were placed in their place.
Before that, I was working on anatomy, but it was not in its place in the perspective of the Persian language
It is coming now and it is in Persian language, which I think, for example, Migama, I imagine whether a Japanese person can see a horse like this or not.
It’s not just a modernist who makes a difference, whether this is a soul from the Persian language or, as you say, from its culture or not.
See, this part is the product of all these years that I did this work
Hey, I tried not to use the motif
Maybe this will get to the point where a motif will appear in the new era that will accompany it at the same time.
These are really more important to me, it is very important to me that, for example, create a design
A design that eventually becomes a motif becomes a special motif itself
When it becomes a motif, I think it can find various uses
That means you can make a fence, make a door, paint, cut and do graphic work with it, the same thing they do with our past motifs.
That is, somehow my search is that this can be reproduced in all kinds of visualizations
That’s why it doesn’t matter to me what kind of material it is, now it’s either a painting or it’s in the name of volume.
That part is not very important to me, the part in which this capability occurs is important
This feature can be used later, I learned this from the past
I learned from the past that, for example, they designed several different types of the same betejjakero
You see it on the carpet in one way, in the pen work in the same way, on the door in the same way
Everywhere you look, they implemented this in different ways, adapted it in that work
I consider myself more of a design seeker
Even in the sense of design, I don’t consider myself a designer, I search because it is much more attractive to me
What should I look for in it now? Do you know that part that is unclear or unclear to me is what my search is in it?
When one starts to work, the form becomes attractive or the texture becomes attractive, one does not know that all these are together.
I worked on them, for example, the image itself, which was a little unrealistic, was attractive to me
After that, you understand and it wasn’t bad at all, but when it was over, I knew that it wasn’t what I wanted.
For example, a person can do something that doesn’t turn out to be a bad thing, then continue doing it for, say, 50 years of his life.
But then I thought that while there is a search in it, it is not what I want
I would take the points that I thought were right and leave the points that were not right in my opinion.
This continued like this, for example, in the next and the next work that happens in the next one
Somewhere I thought that I should, for example, weave a carpet, so I weaved a carpet with him
Or I thought that I should make this, for example, volume, somewhere I thought that I should only do this linearly.
I did these things, and the interesting thing is that it refined itself over time, it became simpler
I believe that the motif must be worked, that is, if we start making the motif this year
How do you think we did it every time we wanted to identify something?
By using the motif, it is no different, so if this is the need, why don’t we use the new one?
I mean, they don’t think there is a need for anything new, now it’s happening in the West, many things are motifs.
You see motifs in your works, many of them are taken and turned into icons
When he became an icon, he uses it, then it is interesting that he uses, for example, Marilyn Monroe, and here he uses people related to him.
It is done in the first motif stage, it becomes the motif that everyone knows and then uses it.
It’s like pop art, but there’s no pop art here, it’s trying to be like that.
That is, he feels the need for a motif, he does not know how to create it
He inevitably goes to his past, but he goes to his present
What in my childhood I saw as actually religious motifs
There is so much, the first thing is to learn it, the first thing is to think about it at all
How a person thought and created this, this thing so strange and so beautiful
You see a bird that they put on science, how did you get so simple?
This simplicity is not the simplicity that is found in minimal westerns, but it is simple, it is nothing, apparently it is just a few lines.
The tap worked, the tap is really simple, then you look at it and it’s in miniature
This is its volumetric shape, that’s why I said that it should be a motif that made its volumetric shape
That’s why I said again that I think I’m designing more than a painting or a volume that is its external form.
When it happens like this, for example, you will see the same bracket on the signs
This is a batehijah that is used in one place, for example, in clothing fabric, in one place it is cashmere, in one place it is used in tiles, and in one place it is used in carpets.
But the same, who designed it, then you go and see that it was designed by an important painter of his time.
That is, it is not at all the case that the one who designed, for example, the Safavid period carpet is just such a person, he is definitely a master.
He definitely has the same position as Reza Abbasi, which means he stands as equal
Because that masterpiece cannot be created by the normal mind
Part 04
You see, everything that one starts has a beginning, one does not know the end, at least I don’t understand now.
Even now, I don’t know the beginning of it
I mean, I just remember that we used to work in college, for example, it was interesting for us
For example, we used to work when we went to nature, now that many years have passed, I realized this
For example, I would start to draw a tree without a mental background, I would start to see what it was like.
Then, in general, there were no good works. Now, when I look at my work, I see that, for example, I really wanted to draw this tree.
Then, when you wanted to draw the tree, you had to draw its lines first
First, understand how this is formed at all, because a person becomes very attractive when the shadow works.
When you’re doing line work, there’s nothing, nothing interesting to actually make an interesting image.
Unless this work continues until it reaches a stage where the lines themselves are placed in the most correct place possible.
Then, at that time, this image itself will become attractive without anything to be attached or added to it
Just like, for example, in the miniature, if you look at the lines themselves, they were correct
Then I looked a lot at how they designed this
How did he look at nature to be able to work so precisely that it is close at the same time as it is far away?
Now I will return to what I was doing myself
Whatever I started working on myself, I preferred to start with just the line at the beginning
That’s why, for example, if I wanted to draw a horse, because I like it very much and I liked it for many years.
For example, I started drawing only the lines, none of them were in place anymore, I had to draw 100 lines for this line to be in place.
Then, at the same time, it made a difference, every time I drew, something was removed
It was not removed consciously, it was removed inevitably
And after 100 to 200 draws, an image is created
I thought that picture was a good picture and I couldn’t think about its future at all, what would happen next.
Just like, for example, if you look at a flower now, this is also the same
Of course, I was looking at other things anyway, but I tried very hard to make sure that their connections were correct, as a line.
My idea was that what happened in the area of the image in the area of, for example, the territory of Iran, in its big sense.
It is becoming a role, they were making a role, that is, two things happened at the same time, it was both close to nature and far away, and at the same time, it was a role from it.
It is very difficult to achieve the pattern. Now, for example, if you look at the pattern on Persepolis, it looks like it was drawn with a pencil.
That is, you can see the miniature writing in it
All of them are designed in pencil, then volume is processed after
But they got so close to the role that it is very surprising from the point of view of the mind
One looks and does not understand what happened
I also came and searched these to see what is going on
First, I had to go and work on their anatomy
That is, I would go and draw a horse or a bird or a tree, anything
This is because now I want to say one or two things, then I started simplifying them
I remembered that we simplify in a way that they teach us in the visual arts section
That simplicity comes back to a minimal, which is not my intention
A minimal is created that looks like an icon, but that open icon is not an icon that is close to the role.
Look at this bird, it is very simplified, then this line is appropriate, for example, now with this hand, this face
That is to say, I used to pay attention to this for myself
Now, for example, I would bring this tree, I would look at how it rotates, even though it is a tree.
It should be an image that, if you see it, you will feel poetry
It was interesting to me that they gradually got out of this shape
Something from that era and something from the new era came into it
I mean, they happened, then I started and thought about what would happen if I wanted to increase the volume.
Then I started to redesign them
When I redesigned them, there was a problem
At that time, I didn’t understand that it meant that he would distance himself from, for example, this horse
Well, this horse is very similar to him, this kind of simplism is very simple and one can reach it more or less.
Then I had to redesign them again, and in these designs, there are additional things
While it is very attractive, at first, when something is added, one does not notice because the picture is very beautiful
For example, you see, I worked this, I worked these places, these will now become a beautiful thing.
But as time passed, I realized how many prepositions there are
There is so much talk here, I spoke too much here, I spoke wrongly here, the connections are wrong.
Something came up but I had to sit down again and design these
You see, for example, I used to design these, but I tried to do it, but it didn’t work
They weren’t bad themselves, then, for example, for a period of time, I didn’t even realize what I was saying, this may have lasted more than 20 years until today.
Because I didn’t understand at first, then, for example, something happened in one of these
For example, I would understand that this foot became more correct compared to these, and then I would start working on it, saying, well, this one piece is correct, but what should I do with these places?
I was moving forward in this way and over time, I had to move forward with the line
That means I have to design the circle first
For example, this, what should be done, has not yet been done and I am not aware here
I like this and, for example, exhibit and work again
This works for example, then I understand that it is still wrong here
It has some interesting stuff, but again, when I work it, the connections of this mean an image is correct
Every time it was fixed, a problem was added to my problems, and I had to change the whole thing again.
For example, when I worked on some of them now, I saw that they are more or less what I think if I put them together.
It can be guessed that it has a connection with the miniature and at the same time it has a connection with the contemporary world
Because I am also educated in these things, this is related
I also guess that it has become a bit poetic, which means it is approaching the level of poetry
The same thing happened to the bird when I came back and started working on this from nature, here for example.
I used to work from nature, then slowly I started to change it
I changed it, I changed it, then I brought it and did different things with it to see what happens, for example
This is nature and then one likes it and likes that something happens to it
Then, little by little, I have to remove these again, for example, now I have created a world here, which is very attractive.
For 2-3 years, I am obsessed with how interesting and good it is, then I come back little by little and delete a little like here.
I start removing these one by one, then hey, these will take their place.
And that’s why the work is much harder, that is, it is easier when you are doing the work
When you delete these, what do you want to put in their place?
What you want to put in its place made it difficult
But it was interesting, that means I had to work for this, for example, for 3 years, 4 years in a row, so that, for example, this tail is really tail, but at the same time, it is not.
What do I want to do now? After a while, I realized that, for example, there is an image in the miniature
Or if I am not wrong, it has been used in Iranian painting over the years, it has been used in different places, which means it is not just one place.
You see that the fabric is woven and has the same pattern on it.
In the same way, there are different events, which means that those motifs have found different uses in different places
After a while, it became important for me to see if, for example, this could be done somewhere else or not
It means that I can use it in a way that is both useful in painting and, for example, in architecture and in different places.
More or less, it seems to me that it is getting to a place where they can now be used as a role.
Now you think that from the beginning when I worked in naturalism, now I have reached this
which, at the same time, is close to nature, in my opinion, it has come together and become like one thing, and some elements have happened in it.
It is the same in the motifs, for example, this is a bit naturalistic, which now has 100,000 shapes
These are all naturalistic, then hey I wanted to do something, see what I could do with this.
I used to design and then make them, they are not bad, but they are still not what I want
The small one, the big one, for example, I was doing this to see how it would turn out, whether it would be beautiful or not.
And in the same way, during your time, you will see that, for example, I came to do something like this and see if it makes any sense at all.
Does it make sense or not? I used to do this for a long time and it would fail
It’s not right, at least I don’t know, I have to do it and understand that it’s wrong, change, change to make it happen
For example, now it’s like this, I guess, for example, in these, the shape and image are closer to the role.
For example, I think they got closer
And this one I think now that the reality is that this is not a wing, it is nothing, it is a line
In fact, this is a line, it is nothing, this is not the tail
But people accept, at least I guess that people accept that this is the end
Now, for me, this has a little connection with, for example, the steel factories of the Seljuk period that worked in Khorasan.
I guess that’s what connects, while I also think that beauty is created.
If you look at it, there are very few lines in it, the lines are very few, it has a general line and some things on it
I have no choice but to go through this process and achieve this
Just as it is the same in these horses
That’s how I came to it again and I reached a simplicity that I guess now they can find a harmony little by little.
I honestly don’t know what will happen after this, if I think that this is the end, I don’t know, no
In any case, I have reached this far, and while it is not a turban, it is
In fact, it is not a tip, which means that these tips are more natural than this tip
Many times, one does not know what these are, but they do something visually
which, for example, you see in the Bismillah chickens
that these were so connected that you could see several aspects in it, different aspects were created in it
And I think one of the things I guess we have to do is design with the line itself
No shadow and only drawing so that one can see the picture completely
This is something that, for example, is the product of all these years of my life
Part 05
Every new thing has an old one, am I right?
It means that everything you see as new has an old one
What is our old thing that is going to become new and new?
In my culture, something has emerged and grown in its historical context
During, for example, a thousand years of painting that they did in Iran, or they worked on shaaz, or they worked on architecture, whichever you look at.
He grew, grew and grew and never grew again
When we put that thing aside altogether and accepted another thing
Then we want to renew it, I say that I can’t, no matter what I do, I have to stop and see how it becomes new and just do the same thing.
For example, I understand old and new, but I don’t understand modernity
I heard its definitions, but I don’t understand what it means
I understand that, for example, it was Behzad, Behzad painted, then Sultan Mohammad painted
Then, for example, Reza Abbasi painted and Agha Mirek Omdeh, Mirzababa or Mehr Ali painted until they reached the new period.
I understand this, now we see everyone in the same way, each of them was a modern and innovative person in their own time.
It means that when that work is created, it continues and this is a new work
Now you take this and say that you don’t want, what do you want to change?
We don’t have anything, at least my conclusion is that we don’t have anything to renew
We always have to sit down, there is a book for Google I think called Notes of a Madman
One place says that every time a wind blows from Italy, Russian art changes, he calls this ironically.
For us, we are now interested in becoming modern, but what do we want to modernize, sir, what do you want to modernize?
I can’t renew Rothko, for example, I can’t renew things that were created in another culture because I’m a stranger to them.
I understand mine, but it’s like somewhere we decided to throw it away and start just refurbishing this one.
And so we followed the 2nd degree, this is my conclusion and I do not say at all whether this is right or wrong.
My conclusion is that basically there is a new one and an old one that can become new.
I think that at some point one should spend from oneself and not reach into other people’s pockets
Now, many times the theories we work on are not the theories we made
But because it is attractive and common, we implement it and even refer to it
I think this is the question of what should be done really, that is, you think, well, we can’t go and buy the theory.
But unfortunately, what I see, what I understand is that many times we buy into theoretical issues.
How to find a theoretical basis that belongs here
When it belongs here, I think it will grow properly
When it does not belong here, its growth is an apparent growth
In cubism, when do you say that a cubist has worked? When it works, that’s all, they say
And some people tend to that type of work, and when they tend to that type of work, they are no longer working as cubists, they are working on basics.
There, his appearance is cubist, but he can neither improve it nor understand it
Only in appearance, it works like that because it becomes interested
Someone works abstractly, but he does not know what he did, after he worked for any reason and need, and then it is presented.
Some people put a name on it that this abstraction worked on
And after that I come and want to work like him, here my reasons are different from his reasons.
These are the reasons that now there is a taste here, I didn’t need to do that
It’s a taste that I like and you like it
This taste is different until it is nothing, a person is creating something
He does not know at all what kind of reaction he will face, what he will see and what will be said to him.
When it is presented, many times he sees you even telling them jokingly And it is not necessarily that they were right
When, for example, the Impressionists worked and it was finished and they put on an exhibition, they said, oh, that’s Impressionist.
This is fauvism, this is cubism, they themselves did not admit that
After this is generally accepted and finished, now we say that because, for example, everyone knows Picasso and he is very avant-garde and interesting.
I work like him, I am also an interesting person
Similarly, in figurative work, for example, imagine that 15 years ago, someone worked less figuratively.
Now they work more figuratively because, for example, everybody knows Freud now
This recognition part, when it is created, means that it has been advertised, you now go to a quiet bed and start working.
It’s your taste, that taste is different from the need that created it
My opinion is that both of them chose based on something that existed, not based on a need.
A choice has been made and you got this and that one got that
At the moment we are choosing our taste or the arguments that people made, we accepted them.
How did you not think of this before? Imagine now that people say, for example, that we are working in a postmodern way.
How does he know that he should work postmodern?
Because something has been done, an argument has come to him and it has been written down
The book was written and then they explained that, sir, everyone is working post-modern, they are not working modern anymore
We say, oh, how interesting, so now I want to do postmodern work
Postmodernism does not happen here anymore, just as it happens now, for example, after that, it becomes contemporary
The contemporary that we don’t know, then books will be written again, articles and articles and thousands of things will be written and the proofs will come out.
Then we come and start working based on that evidence
Well, it is no longer contemporary, actually I am working on the basics, for example, the basics of contemporary art
Why? Because its component is earned, for example, taking care of tradition and the past, taking something new, has a series of words.
He explains that if you do these things, the work becomes contemporary, it becomes a postmodern work.
Well, when you observe this, you don’t subscribe to it, you just like it
What I am saying is not to prove myself to God, I am saying that I am thinking about these things.
I say what should be done, well you are saying no, so what is yes?
Then I come and say that I am the same way, that if we make something and sell it anyway and 2 people clap for us, we have the same problem.
The only thing for me is that I realized that he is not what I want
The one I think is not this, now ask what it is, I say I don’t know, I really don’t know
I can give an explanation, but those explanations are very superficial, very superficial
For example, we can make a horse, just like I did, this horse has been done in miniature and our works throughout history.
I thought how can I renew this now, not that it is new
How can I find this connection to my past and at the same time connect to the new era?
I tried 100 ways for this and still haven’t reached the result I think
Hey, I presented it to see if this is the case or not, sometimes there are parts of it, now these may be placed next to each other and it will be fine.
But by God, I definitely have the same problems that others have
I really can’t say that I got anything, I don’t feel bad at all.
To be honest, I would like to get something, but so far, very little has happened.
In a way, maybe the painting itself, the work we do, is an excuse to walk
Because the painting itself is not very important, for example whether I am a painter or something else, this is what I do, after all, I want to see who I am.
Everyone is like that in their work, I think they are looking for this
Now, since I am a painter and not necessarily an artist, I have learned this as well as other things
For example, it is possible that in a few years I will think that I should not paint at all
I have to do it again, I’m going in the direction I’m going, I think that, well, I went this way and I didn’t get there, maybe something else will reach me.
He is not as important to me as he was in previous years
Well, I think that, for example, anything should make me understand something
To understand something, at least for myself, means to understand within myself, my weakness, my strength
And this is difficult every time because every time I encounter a hidden part that I did not know
And that I don’t know, I have to look again and again to find what to do
I believe that patience is very important in our work, I said that we don’t have shortcuts at all
Even in what I do myself, I don’t have a shortcut, again, a white canvas is as unfamiliar to me as it is the previous time and the next time.
Every time, my experience and expectations increase, and I understand where my problems are.
It means that every time you want to fix the problem, it is as difficult as last time
Unless one only thinks about the technique and does something
As soon as one expects for himself that this work will reach a certain place
It means that actually the work itself is not important anymore, the way a person does, in fact, his behavior is more important, for me at least that’s how it is.
Part 06
In a way, maybe the painting itself, the work we do, is an excuse to walk
Because the painting itself is not very important, for example whether I am a painter or something else, this is what I do because I want to see who I am.
I think everyone is doing the same search in their work
Now, since I’m a painter, I’m not necessarily an artist, like other things, I’ve learned this
For example, it is possible that in a few years it will seem to me that I should not paint at all
I have to do one more thing, I’m going in the direction I’m going, I think that, well, I went this way and I didn’t get there, maybe something else will reach me.
He is not as important to me as he was in previous years
And I think that everything should make me understand something
To understand something, at least for myself, means to understand inside myself, my weakness and strength
But it’s hard every time because every time I come across a hidden part that I didn’t know
And the fact that I don’t know makes me have to search and search again to find out what to do.
I believe that patience is very important in our work, I said that we don’t have shortcuts at all
Even in what I do myself, I don’t have a shortcut, again, a white canvas is as unfamiliar to me as it will be the last time and the next time.
Every time, my experience and expectations increase, and I understand where my problems are.
It means that every time you try to fix a problem, it is as difficult as the last time
Unless one only thinks about the technique and does something, as soon as one expects for oneself that this work will reach a certain place.
In fact, the work itself is not important anymore, the way a person does it, in fact, his behavior is more important
I just want to answer the questions that I have, you know we have no choice and one must accept one thing first.
First, I have to accept that I live in this geography, then I have to accept that this is my history
In my opinion, I have to accept that my language is this language, I have to accept that my religion is this religion, I cannot not accept these things.
When we accepted it, now we say what did they create?
Or when you accept it or believe that it is, at least I believe that it is
Then I look at the product that has been produced in the past and people pay attention to it and it is attractive to them based on this.
No matter which one we deny, that one will not exist, you see our best works in every field, they believed these things.
It means that the party has accepted that the gentleman is here, he has accepted that he has this religion, this language, this geography and this history.
I can’t imagine that I was born in another country in Europe and pretended to be.
For example, I studied the basics of visual arts, visual arts are what the West is
But when you understand, you say, where was I? You have to go and search and find yourself.
When you put these 2 together, you realize that what is the point of creating a secondary thing.
I often ask myself this question: Is what you are doing real? Do you really believe it or not?
One time, for example, I say about Hafez, he is very attractive, but do you really agree? Do you conscientiously understand it or not?
Many times these inner questions of mine are not really about painting at all
It’s about how close you really are to what you think and at least try to reflect outside?
Many times I am not close, but I really wish to be close
I try to do whatever I think is right
But I always think that what I don’t do is because of my selfishness or not?
I don’t mean selfishness in its true sense, the part where it is my ego that does this.
Or really, if no one is there and doesn’t see, it will be me and I and I, will I really do it or not? Sometimes I think I will do it
I don’t care if they tell me whether you know sculpture or not, whether you know painting or not
But it is important for me to understand design, I really wish to become a good designer in my life
It is possible with the least possible means, and I know that something new can happen
It can find different uses, it’s very, very difficult, but I hope it will be possible, because sometimes when there is a glimmer, I know it’s possible.
It’s also interesting to me that every time something comes up, after that, the need to implement it and how to present it arises.
It is another thing, for example, look at the bird that I showed you, it cannot be presented like this.
Now how should I supply it to be a correct supply?
It has its own story, one can say that I am casting, I do this, among a thousand choices, if this is the most correct* it is a story itself.
What I am saying is that this story is so interesting to me that I hope, it is always with hope that I work almost from morning to night.
Do you believe this question that I always advise myself that Reza has little time, very, very little
You see, I shook my head and I am 52-3, which means that it is not something that I want to joke about
It was with all the wishes, with all this that you don’t accept this, it’s not good and now see that I will do something
Then you see that no, it passed and you couldn’t do anything, nothing
Don’t think at all that the horizon is so long in front of you, it’s over as soon as you shake your head
There is very little time and many dreams, limit your dreams but take them seriously
Because the narrower you make it, the easier it is to reach the result, the more you widen the range of these, it will not work.
These are necessary, one should know himself and see which one is really a priority and which one is not
These are a thousand other problems that will arise later, becoming a person is a very difficult task
It is really hard, it means that one works to become a person anyway