Sirak Melkonian
Audio of the Entire Interview
Interview Transcript
Part 01
I remember that we are 4 brothers and 1 sister, and of course my sister was not there at that time, but my brothers used to go and play.
One day I clearly remember that I was under the chair and I was painting and it was raining
I really always loved painting, how old were you? I don’t think I was more than 4-5 years old
This is the most beautiful memory for me, I remember looking outside, it was raining, and I was under the chair.
And until now this is my companion, always when I work in any cafe or at home, this view is in the back of my head.
As far as I can remember, I think I worked since I was 3 years old
My father encouraged me a lot, I drew lines, I painted, my father showed everyone
My brothers would go and be naughty and I would draw under the chair
It was in this way that painting has become like this until today, which means that if I don’t work for even 1 day, it’s like I have committed a sin.
I was an 18-day-old child when my father took us to Arak because the Allies were there, and because my father was a boot designer, he made boots for officers and soldiers.
And until I was 12 years old, I was in Arak, it had a large garden and my life was in the garden, that is, the life of our family
Next to my father’s shoe shop was an Assyrian immigrant, a young man who was probably 18-19 years old at that time.
At that time, I think I was 7-8 years old, I also remember his name, it was Alex Gorgis.
I used to go behind the window where basme paintings were working and I would look in amazement.
And how thirsty I was to be able to work like this, until my father asked that gentleman and I went there.
Sometimes, for example, when I didn’t go to primary school, I went there and worked
It was the first time I experienced painting with oil paint
I worked for one summer, and then the person’s father became jealous and said not to let this person come here again
But my friendship with that gentleman continued until I was 12 years old when I came to Tehran and went to Tamdan High School
I was 14 years old when I became a member of the cultural association. It was a so-called association where progressive Armenians gathered.
Vazgen was Minassian, Vaspur, these were the big ones, then Marko
We used to get together and go outside Tehran and paint
Believe me, for 12 years in a row, without a single Friday absence, I would take the paint box and go to, for example, Oshan, Migun, Venk, all around here until Varamin and even in winters.
It happened like this, suppose that when there were annual exhibitions in the Iran-Soviet Association, I was one of the professors at that time.
I mean, I was 17 years old and I had made all the portraits of all the neighbors in the alley and around Hassan Abad, for example.
My father had a classmate whose nickname was Mani, but his real name was Markar Qarabagian, who was both a poet and a painter.
And he was one of the students of Kamal al-Molk, he used to draw pictures for the tourists at that time.
I went for one season, I also went for the second season, and he suggested that I become a partner with him
Because I was working so fast that there was no limit and those works are being sold now and even in promotions.
And I am very unhappy, you know, because those things were not personal at all
This was the only custom work I did, I have never done any custom work in my life
In the summers, I went to a graphic studio called Aldo, I learned all about Russian culture there
I learned music, literature, painting and some Russian
This became the basis of my work, basically I did not go to the academy, but I was always on the way
For example, Marco went to Italy to study when I was 14-15 years old
At that time, they were army officers who met me and went to Italy
And every month he sent me newspaper clippings of the latest events in Italy
And when he came back after 5-6 years, he was amazed that I had done these things
And Sirak said, let’s go to the academy, we went to Italy together, I was 8-27 years old
Of course, after the Tehran Biennale, as you must know, I won the biggest royal award for painting and drawing.
I went there and was in the academy for 1 month, then I saw that this is not my place, in a closed place
And then, I really saw that those who do these things were not interesting to me at all, and I came out.
Whatever Marco did, I said, I can’t work indoors, I learn a lot more outside.
Museums, galleries, people, you know all the moving models, weird faces
This is why I stopped doing this altogether and I am very happy that I didn’t go
Because I feel that this academic framework would have had a very bad effect on me if it had happened
That means he was taking away the freedom of flight from me
Part 02
Immigrating to Canada was a very bad thing, I had to leave
But for the first 10 years, I did not reconcile at all, even my dreams were all here, until now it is here sometimes, but maybe it was necessary.
You see, around the end of 1981, I immigrated, lived in Greece for 1 year and was waiting for residence papers
My wife was here, the kids were studying in England, I was traveling all around Greece
Well, sometimes the police would come and warn me that you should get out because you don’t live here.
And since my brother was in Germany, I went there and was able to get a German residence permit
And with this card, I was able to stay in Greece for almost 1 year
Because I was allowed to go to Greece with only 500 dollars, I was in a lot of trouble in terms of money
I had an American friend whom we had met in Iran, during a trip to Baluchistan
He and his wife emptied their bedroom and told you to stay here and paint
Believe me, I used to go out at night and collect paper and cardboard that was thrown away, bring them and paint on them.
I did about 4-63 small and medium jobs at this Mr. Paul Parker’s house
He arranged the exhibition where 6-7 of my works were sold and this was a lot of money for me
And when I immigrated to Canada, I started working there, very seriously
The result of my work in 1982 and 1983 was my very important exhibition in New York
I think half of the works were sold and compared with their best painters
And that was great for me, because I was working in a room like, let’s say, Pesto, so I didn’t have anywhere to work.
And that’s why sometimes even today I think that if you were to force me to live in a small empty room
Doing small things is no different from doing big things
When I was in Greece, my window overlooked a very large building
This wall was just something that had the effects of rain and snow that had come and then left a so-called mark.
Believe me, about 7-8 months when I was looking at this wall, I did 50-60 things
It was like an illusion, you know, illusions that appeared there, but those illusions were not there, they were mine.
Suppose these were personal inconveniences
I went to Greece at the end of 81 and I was in Greece until the end of 82, from there I went to England with my wife and we took the children.
And we went and got off in the very cold of Montreal
It was in 1982 when I didn’t have anything and I didn’t know the language and neither the way of life nor the weather was suitable.
They told me to send my resume to Alberta, there is a university in Banff
They saw my resume and invited me there, I went and the university accepted me as a design professor.
I came back happily, my lady said that we have 2 children who were in England all these years and now here.
I don’t accept any more wandering and I won’t go there, there is no one there at all and maybe he was right
I came back and heard this and said that I am going to Iran, I got up and came to Iran
I was here for 4 months, I went to Zardband and I saw a place and I wanted to buy it, start living like a shepherd, like a villager.
My wife came after 3-4 months and cried that we are no longer in Montreal and we went to Toronto
I got up and went to Toronto and saw that instead of Toronto, I went to Mississauga, a city
I wasted my time there for 3 years, you know, because I had no acquaintances, believe me, I went to the printing house for my pride.
It was an ironic printing house, I used to go there sometimes and do graphic work for him.
And if there was no work, for example, I would move the cans.
And really, when I remember these now, the best days were when I would come home and draw a line again.
But I was proud to use the painting to make a portrait, for example, I did not do this
I had a neighbor from Yugoslavia who brought me a portrait of his father with a horse and said that my father is dead, make this for me.
I also saw that it was a sin, I made this with oil paint, he said you are betraying your family, you can become a millionaire with these things.
Because he had nothing to do with me, but I told him, look, I have never done this in my life, my painting is my soul.
Migration is a very silly thing, but if you look at it consistently, it is wonderful
The first time and the first morning I opened my eyes in Montreal because we arrived in the middle of the night with 2 young people.
I don’t know how I could protect them from danger and continue their education there with my wife and me.
I remember a Frenchman who was one of the good painters in Montreal told me that my basement was empty and you should come and work there.
I was very happy, I went to the basement and he gave me a tripod, I bought paint and started working
Believe me, I worked every day and went home at night
One day, I accidentally went up the stairs to ask something, I went there and saw that he had copied all my work.
I didn’t say anything to him, I looked and came down and told him that if you allow me, I will collect these and leave and return to the same apartment.
I exhibited the works I made in Montreal and Greece in New York
And in 1986, I had a very good exhibition in Los Angeles, which had a great impact and the newspapers wrote about it, and it was very good.
And a very, very important exhibition in Orange County that was about 10 years ago
This exhibition was for 1 month, but it was extended for 6 months, of course, this was a cultural exhibition, not for sale
I had 18 works that Marco, when he came from New York, said Sirac, I had not seen such an exhibition for many years
I was alone in Greece for 8 months and I was waiting for immigration papers
One day when I went back to my little room, I thought to myself that if I look in the mirror angry, this is really the reaction.
That is, it is angry, if I look kindly, the reaction is kind
I said what do I expect from people if I do something big and expect good things
When you look in this way, people are your mirror
How much better if you really feel that all these people are your own
Well, when you reach this purity that I think there is nothing but love
If someone even thinks that he is your enemy, he is your enemy, you are not their enemy
I don’t know anything in life, one is malice, one is jealousy, and one is anger. I don’t know these things in principle.
Part 03
I think there is no difference between big and small work, it is only expression, that one expresses, to empty oneself.
When you talk to yourself, you live with all your being
It doesn’t matter, there is no masterpiece because our existence is a masterpiece, right?
When you really work honestly, it’s a feat for yourself, now it’s a line, it doesn’t matter
I think that my works are more fluctuations, that is, music
My recent exhibitions are all non-pictorial because the image forces people to look at the image and not the art.
But when you put the image aside, you see that it’s really all a reflection of your breathing, your movement
And if you suppose to look at a very, very important work of a great painter, if it is figurative
You can see that they used that figure as an excuse to get rid of themselves
And those empty spaces that are not figures, they are the most important part of the painting
In the work of art, choice has no meaning at all because I don’t do commissioned work that I choose or dictate to me.
That’s why, if you look at my work process since I was a teenager, it is constantly changing
Because wherever I go, the life of that area affects that environment
I was not placed in a particular format or market path to work for that market
The works that I made at the age of 16 until now, you can see that it is clear who owns the work
I live by painting, when I don’t paint I don’t live at all
And you say how come you work? See the first line that is drawn, the second, the third, the fourth and so on
When I start to work, the work continues, it is like a river, it flows
It doesn’t stop anymore, sometimes it happens that I start work in the morning, there are some almonds and dates on the table, and sometimes I refer to them.
I come back again and see that I have been working for 8 hours and I have completely forgotten what food is.
It is a motivation that is always there, I don’t have time for it, you know, there are so many problems in life and everyday life everywhere.
that if I could really imprison myself completely, I would be the happiest person
But you know that I don’t want to express my so-called private life and say that
Really, how much I live in different troubles
My 19-year-old lady is sick and has been kept somewhere else for 3-4 years
Because if a person is careless for a moment, great dangers may happen, for example
Well, why did I say this, because when I go to see that sometimes I spend 3-4 hours for this work.
When I go out, I am a person who is really paralyzed, I can’t concentrate on anything at all.
I have to change the car route, I go 10-12 km to a cafe
There are 2 cafes that I go there, both cafes are related to the Portuguese cafe.
I have been doing this for 6-25 years, I go to these cafes and sit and work for 2 hours with a coffee and a pastry.
When I go there and work and see the faces, then when I come back to the studio, I can continue.
I said this so that you know that life sometimes forces a person to a corner that does not belong to him at all.
I mean, it’s not about work, when I go back to the studio, I really need to recharge
I have to sit and look at a wall without any pattern and create those patterns little by little.
And then I slowly pick the colors, put the canvas, look, see if I can
Little by little, when I see that yes, I am able and I start, when I start, it goes like a locomotive.
I have 2 sons, the younger one is an almost universal animator
He tells me, Dad, you are in the ocean, how do you do these things?
I say, look, my son, I need to live for thousands of years to play all these roles, it’s really endless.
It means it is a kind of meditation, I walk and things are taken while walking, I don’t take them, they are taken and then these things are expressed.
One billionth of these are expressed because it is like a bicycle wheel or a car wheel that keeps turning
He takes it and lets it go, but some things remain in you
This is that life is really a masterpiece and I love life so much that it has no limits
Because every moment is sweeter than honey, in all troubles
Suppose 2 days before my trip, I slipped on the ice and then I just hurt my hand
And one day I drove with this broken hand, I didn’t realize that it was broken, I also painted
Later that night, my eldest son saw that I was swollen and immediately took me to the hospital
Believe me, we were there in the hospital until 3:00 in the morning, they took a cast and opened it in the morning
Because I had to move at night, I didn’t raise any eyebrows, moan or complain.
I felt that it was necessary for this to happen and really these 3-4 weeks that my hand and my tongue are not working.
Again, I think it might have been necessary for me to be able to work with more energy
There is nothing that is not positive for me, really everything is positive, whatever happens I think it was meant to happen.
Believe me, what I do is not painting for me because painting has no meaning
I go back to the Achaemenid period, believe me, an element that is on a bowl
You go to the museum of ancient Iran, it is a bowl, it is an element, it is a pattern, it is a painting
Because the person who made this has expressed the whole of Iran
But when you paint, create a landscape, it’s a piece of the whole world that doesn’t express anything, you copy something.
If you believe in this, painting has no meaning, you are expressing yourself, you are expressing easily.
Millions, billions of people came and went underground and could not express
They spoke, but there was no expression, they left no trace after themselves
But if someone draws 2 lines on the bowl, it remains and becomes a universal language
The first memory that really shook me I think was around 7-26 years old
The British Cultural Association in Tehran showed an exhibition of Australian native works
Believe me, I went there and was moved, it was when I was experiencing impressionism and expressionism.
I saw where my father is and where are these, the people who are native, I don’t know their language, their spoken language.
I saw that they do things that I don’t get to do at all
What was the work? Suppose they didn’t make the fish look like it, they made the bones
Humans made their skeletons, not the skin and nerves and these things, that is, empty of all these coverings.
And when I think how philosophically interesting it is for me to look at you blankly
And one is really free and empty of these things like a woman who does not pamper herself
When you forgive, if you went to the hospital when your wife is sick, you look at her when she is on the bed and she has not fainted.
You can see that he is an angel, his beauty is infinite, but when he makes a fuss or fixes himself and comes out, he is not himself.
It is not today, it is not tomorrow, it is not the day after tomorrow, it is only its own time that is free of these appearances
So one should really understand art for what it is
When I went to Chichen Itza, I saw these Mayan gods or heroes
I saw these heroes who sacrificed themselves so that people would come and see their heroes.
Their skulls were made big and then there were hundreds of them on the wall
It is a masterpiece that a person cannot be seen with this nerve and with these eye movements
That they don’t lie and only that thing is solid, how different is this skeleton from that skeleton, this skull from that skull, and these are very interesting to me.
See, my work is never finished, this is not a philosophy
Years ago, someone came from Canadian TV to take pictures of my work and interview me
I told him that I don’t like you to take pictures of my works, of course at that time
How did he say? I said that when you see these things, put them together like a hierarchy and then go to the end.
He said why? I said that because these are the process of my life, this work will end, but immediately I think that this has not satisfied me and then I will come to the second one.
Because it never really ends, it’s a hierarchy that goes on
It will end when my life ends, the work will not end, it will not end at all
Sometimes I’m very obsessed now, I didn’t have it before, these things you see were not with this obsession
I had more energy, I was young and faster, and then I was impatient
Now I meditate, I pause, then I see that not here, work should still be done
Then I don’t work for 2-3 days, I’m not able, I do other things, I design, but I keep that work.
I keep it and go and come, sometimes I turn the work so that I don’t see it
I don’t see you for a week, and then I see you again and say, “Dad, stop, let me work, let me talk to you.”
I started working in the morning, it was 6-7 in the evening
Without taking into account that I have a neighbor, sir, when this work was finished, this had never happened in my life
I screamed that the house was shaking like an earthquake
I know a painter who is no more, named Robert Motherwell, a painter whose work, for example, sells for 20 million dollars.
In the past and in his youth, he took a German from Matisse and made it grandisan
Of course, his work is very good and wonderful, but he has repeated this for 20-25 years
It must have been necessary for him to maintain this market, because it is huge money, his life and skin will be more shiny.
You know, he eats well, he sleeps well, he recovers well
But in the end, how much satisfaction he gets, this is important
Life is full of turmoil, how can I go and say that this point is suppose to be a memory
I can say about the memories that they are different memories and they cannot be expressed at all
Because all these memories have turned into paintings
And because my language is not what I’m talking about, really my language is my hands
I have millions and billions of images in my memory, but these come and then become a subconscious mind.
It is not conscious, I can never consciously express what happened
Things are really vague and how much I like that it’s vague, you know because my work is vague now
The first exhibition that I organized in Mah Gallery after many years
I had given the name of the exhibition, i.e. its title Oscillation or Percussion
And I had written that life is full of ambiguity and why its effects should not be ambiguous
Because sometimes I write things, you know that they are neither poetry nor prose and maybe they are delusions and I like that they are delusions.
Part 04
The most important period of my work after that group exhibition of Iran and the Soviet Union and the exhibition of the Cultural Association…..
There were periods that were very experimental, from 1954-55, from that period, the first static gallery period, i.e. my work, was defined.
In the first exhibition, my works were very expressive, that is, I painted in an expressive way
At that time, I think it made a lot of noise and after that exhibition, my friendship with culture… started.
After the static gallery, there was the Iranian-Indian Cultural Association, where my path was almost determined
which was my first abstract exhibition, of course, after the Tehran Biennale exhibition in 1957
where I got the biggest royal award in drawing and painting
In 1958, we had a booth at the Venice Biennale and there were 16 Iranian painters
In return, the thousands of paintings that I saw influenced me, I returned and my work turned into abstraction
Because I had found the new world, it was a strange world
I came out of the academy and left the academic work and everything and started a new experience
Until 1974, the World Art Exhibition was held in Iran
Of which 90 painters were from France and about 20-300 painters from Iran
Most of the jurors came and after discussing with several galleries, Odermatt Gallery only asked to exhibit my work at the Basel exhibition along with some other painters.
But he asked me to exhibit my works for a solo exhibition at Odermatt Gallery
My gouache and oil paintings were exhibited in the Odermat exhibition, which had 3 large halls
I don’t know if you read it or not, one of the greatest critics in the world, Alan Boske, before he saw me.
In the catalog of the exhibition, he said that we have to wait for 3-4 generations until someone comes and amazes us.
After 1976 and in 1977, I had a booth at the Grand Ballet, which is one of the most important events in the world.
After a few months and again in 1977 in the hall….. in honor of Dali’s works
About 80 painters from around the world had chosen, and I had a big hall with 4 big works
Then, when I returned to Iran, Zand Gallery invited me to have an exhibition
That exhibition was one of my most important exhibitions, there were 55 works, mostly large
Only 5 small tasks remained and Mrs. Zand said that you broke Iran’s sales record
They came and took them from all the galleries in the world and I have no address and no work left
After that, or before that, it was Washart in 1977 when our independent group had an exhibition in Washington
I can truly say that this group of us and Iranian painters really shined in sculpture and painting.
Because it was completely non-commercial, it was supposed to be a sea of work, but it felt that every work was somehow commercial anyway.
In the work of Iranians, you did not see a shekel of commercial work, and I had a large statue there
The big cube sculpture, the theme of which was that I had thought, well, how neat and clean is this apartment living around.
And it is rusted inside, I had specified this, but of course, Shahbanu’s office later objected and thought that I had political thoughts.
It was trouble until I wanted to be free
In that exhibition of Wash Art, the so-called Israeli cultural group for this sculpture and 3 of my big works
They invited me to have an exhibition there, and my friends, including Mamiz, Marko, Pilaram, and Arabshahi.
They said that Sirak, step there and return to Iran, it’s over, I didn’t know what was happening in Iran.
Anyway, I came back here and it was my Zand exhibition, and after 2-3 months, political events happened
My children were studying in England, I lost contact with the French gallery for 3 years
Because I couldn’t do anything, I wasn’t allowed to send anything at all
The connection was lost and I went into a so-called masochistic state
That was really my worst period of 3 years when I couldn’t have an exhibition at all
Because my studio was north of the university, that Porcina alley, it was a villa house
I had no money to send to the children, I had to sell another house
And I sent the money from the black market and my money ran out
Then I went to Greece and stayed there, these 3 years were my very stagnant period, from 1978 to 1981.
I went on a trip to New York and came back, because everything was canceled, the visas were canceled and the hostage taking started.
Then my dear friend Sohrab, who was always in my studio, got sick and went to England, and then I found out that he had cancer.
It was 1981 when I was with my wife, I was sleeping at night and it was 1:00 am
Parvaneh, his sister, called and said that Sirak Sohrab is gone, these were all the effects that crushed me, you know.
And after my trip to Greece, everything changed completely
I didn’t have a place to work, I didn’t have enough paint, but I just started working with these scraps
Which, anyway you ask how it changed, these were really influences that happened strongly in my work.
I was always in financial trouble until I got married and little by little my work situation changed.
See, I did graphic work, I did silk screen printing
Because I worked with different colors, sometimes, for example, I have silkscreen paint on my paintings
I don’t know how familiar you are, I have a Khurshid Khanum, Khurshid Khanum made a lot of noise at the exhibition… which exhibition was it, my God
I think it was Iran and India, I don’t remember completely, yes, I think it was, I made this work in 1958 or 1959.
which was published in Apadana magazine and many other works were also published in it
That exhibition sounded like a bomb, because no one had ever done something like this in Iran, no abstract work.
One is this work sample
In this way, because I did other things besides painting, for example, I also used commercial paints.
Like…anymore, you know, I’d bring shiny colors and stuff, and the material didn’t matter to me, what I was working with.
I have a bunch of watercolors that no one has seen and I have a lot of personal portraits that are now in Canada
At the age of 14, 15, 16, 17, I made these, from watercolor to oil
Believe me, I have felt loneliness since I was a child
I felt loneliness, but I was never humiliated because loneliness is wonderful
You know, I’m not a very social person, for example, since I was a teenager, I never went to these parties, which were fashionable at that time.
I didn’t waste a second of my time, believe me, I used to get up in the middle of the night with, let’s say, an oil lamp
Believe me, everyone was sleeping, parents and all, I used to go to that corner and paint, work under the light of the lamp.
When I found time for half an hour, I would run home and work again
This is loneliness, there is no loneliness other than this
And how happy I am that, for example, I had and still have a woman who felt this and did not bother me
And I don’t complain that I’m alone, even today when I’m in Canada, I’m in Toronto
The doors of my house are closed because I am alone, if anyone wants to come and see me, I will put it outside.
Because where I live, few people come
It’s like a temple, it’s like a place of worship for me
I go there and believe me, I don’t feel like I have to go anywhere except to see my wife, who I go to every day.
I am there with them for 2-3 hours, when I want to come, he says where are you going?
He wants to keep me again, my heart hurts, but what should I do?
I go from there and, for example, I sit in a cafe, the same Portuguese cafe
There are 2 cafes, believe me, they have no idea what I do
They think that I am, for example, writing homework or scribbles, and they still don’t know who I am.
I never let anyone point at me, sometimes when they notice I run away.
Attention is the worst thing for me, did you say loneliness? I am alone but I am not
There is so much world in that solitude that it has no limit
Part 05
Well, suppose it was Marco, Arabshahi, Nami, Pilaram, Memiz, Diabegi
They created a movement that really caused a whirlwind
Many other friends and colleagues will agree and want to move next to us
And it helped a lot, it helped the so-called artistic movement of that period, there was nothing like it until now
I think the Azad group was a strange phenomenon
I don’t want to say that, for example, we individually were stars, no, maybe there were better artists than us
But they synchronized with us, they came as guests and became our guests
But one thing happened, Hossein Kazemi was our guest one day, he was sitting next to me in these meetings
After 1 hour, 2 hours, he slowly hit my foot and said Sirak, I will not come here again
I said why? He said, I was expecting more, sorry, I don’t want to name names, one or two of our group were talking a bit rudely.
He had a foul language and this person did not like that
And I respect the fact that I myself hate bad words in life, I hate cursing
And I saw what a great person he really is and this memory is my most beautiful memory
Hossein Kazemi, apart from painting, I talked to him many times, he was a really rare person and a completely Iranian Iranian.
In terms of personalities, I had friends who are really empty now
For example, Manouchehr Shibani was my very dear friend, believe me, he is the clearest person I have seen among artists
I mean, this person was like a baby, he was so clean at all that I don’t put any limits on him
But let me tell you a memory, we had a group exhibition at Bank Saderat of Kale Company
It included painters like Tanavoli, Shibani, Marco, Sepehari, Safari, and I. I don’t remember who they were.
It was a great exhibition, I think it was ’58 or ’59
Before the exhibition, Manouchehr told me that Sirak would you come to choose my works? I said willingly
His house was very far away, I went there and saw that he made a series of new works
We chose 6-7 works together and it was finished and I came back, I don’t usually go to opening nights, but now and here was an exception because I came from Toronto
The next day, Tanavoli called me and said Sirak, come tonight, I have work with you, this friend of yours has ruined our reputation.
I said which one? Shibani said, I went and said Sirak, you know Hossein Najmi had come here
First of all, let me say that I saw his work installed on a vertical column and I said that this work was horizontal
Tanavoli said that’s it, we said that there is no room and let’s leave it like this and he said that there is no problem
Nothing says, Najmi came and looked and went and told Shibani that Manouchehr, you are really an Iranian painter and you understand Iran.
He says this and Manouchehr also looks up and laughs, he is very pleased that this compliments him.
He said that Najmi said after some time that you know that you recognized Ironi, that is broken glass because he had pasted the glass on his paintings, that is, he had made a collage.
This memory is a masterpiece for me, how simple this man was
And he is the first poet who felt and followed Nima, later they came along
– Who was Ziyapur and what effect did he have on art?
I heard in the distance what effects it had, the war cock and all that
The cock of war was not his own, it was an adaptation of Picasso’s cocks
Only his name was Khoros Jangi, he had brought a movement in Iran
And because, anyway, Iran was far away from the countries that, let’s say, worked for a modern example, each movement gathered a few people.
Well, this also had some fans, for example, when I won the biggest prize in the Biennale, they were very upset.
You know, he was sad because he was immersed in so-called European and academic work
And he saw that, for example, a young man came and did things completely contrary to these
And it has nothing to do with the European work process, of course I was influenced, but not by force
And directly that I must be a modern painter, they wanted to be a modern painter
Maybe I didn’t understand it then, but not at all now
It doesn’t make sense, what does modern painting mean?
You are living now, it is possible that you will create a movement that your painting will become a new phenomenon.
At that time, even without wanting to define myself, my works completely disrupted the Iranian painting system.
All these painters that we know worked either Braque or Picasso or let’s say Cézanne
No one would dare to bring, for example, a texture and a work from within the people that had nothing to do with these works at all.
I have a photo that shows all the professors, those with names like Behzad, a miniaturist who was the leader of all the miniaturists of that time.
And he was a very nice person and I had many meetings with him in groups
Mohsen Sohaili, Mani and Ashtiani were all of them, in the back row, 3 young men sat in front of him.
In the middle of me, this side is special and the other side is Aivazian
Especially at that time, he was a young man like me, nobody paid much attention to us, we just worked.
Khas was the same until he went to America and came back with trembling nerves
I used to go to his studio sometimes, he was an interesting person, but he had a kind of excessive excitement, which I think hurts the artist.
Anyway, in my opinion, the painting itself was taken from Chagall and El Greco, a bit towards religious traditions.
Arabshahi is my dear friend, he works well and he is very good
And he is a very quiet person.
It is very interesting that I was in Italy, I said that I came out of the academy and did not continue
One day, Vaziri Moghadam told me to go to Sirak by the sea, we agreed to see him there too, and I went and saw that he had brought Lentils.
We sat by the sea and ate lentils, I have a photo, we took a photo together in a swimsuit
And we were friends, we used to go together and sometimes when we were with friends, he also came to the cafe once or twice and we talked.
Until he came to Iran with his wife, Marko and Vaziri and I had a short-term friendship
At that time he was living in a basement and his wife was Italian
And the last time I saw them, I think it was in 1978 or 1979
I accidentally went to Marco’s house and saw a minister there
Marco was very upset with me, he said that with the fame you got, with the success you got
Your works have been shown in Paris, on the Grand Pelle, which until then had never been set foot on the East.
I had a pavilion next to Andy Warhol or in the Grand Palace of Paris, where suppose they invited 70 painters from all over the world in honor of Dali, they gave me a hall.
He said that I don’t know why you don’t follow, post, communicate, it was in 78 and immediately after the exhibition.
And I looked at them and saw what this thought is, what does it mean? Do I follow to become famous? For more fame or more money?
I didn’t say anything and told Marco, well, this is your way, not mine, I can’t promote myself, it’s not my job.
And you already know that the revolution had started, I left and came back, I didn’t see Mohsen Vaziri anymore, I hardly saw Marco because he was in other events.
You will find a young man who is somewhat quiet and as if he was shy
One day he came to me and then he said Mr. Melkanian, we were the same age, he said I want to learn painting
And then I said that it’s not bad, I didn’t know at all, at that time I used to go to Marco’s studio, I said come there one day
He came and saw me and Marco and then we talked and he was trained for a while, more than me
He slowly started to become a painter, that is, he started very late, I think he was over 40 years old when he started working.
Well, Pilaram was a very good friend of mine, he was very dear, I also have a souvenir of his design that many wanted to buy from me and I didn’t sell it.
One day, he slowly came to me and said that my left arm is always numb
I said, well, it’s about your heart, go and get it checked, he was very worried
Then I don’t know how it happened that after a while, which was not too long, I heard that
He was behind the rail, his brother goes to buy something from the grocery store, he comes and sees that he has finished behind the rail.
My memories are partial memories, but people are so beautiful, especially Pilaram
First of all, he had a very beautiful face, you know he was a very handsome man and it’s a shame, it’s a real shame
Vala Marco, in my opinion, was one of the most important influencers in Iran in the field of contemporary art at that time
Because they brought with them a treasure here in these many years that they sent the entries of the newspapers and this interest that they had.
It was mandatory for me, who was 6-7 years younger than him, to show so much interest
The first step he took to Tehran came to my studio, our friendship continued and then another friend appeared in our friendship named Dr. Reza Mufarah.
Marco was 180 degrees different from me in every way, he was fire
I admired his work, sometimes he did it himself, but let’s say when he was collecting these coffee shop works.
We were next to his movements every day, Reza Mefarah and I were together
We used to go to Shemron, the berry market, we used to go to Shahran, we collected from there, we used to go all over Tehran and in the lowest neighborhoods and collect these things.
With the establishment of the Biennale, with the painting classes he gave at the Aesthetic Gallery, which he sometimes asked me to teach.
Then the model was alive there and they came and painted, there were some contemporary painters who came and we worked together.
And the exhibitions he organized and artistic movements that no one knew about until then
Because he was a social person and spread himself, he didn’t go to a corner like me, you know
I never had anything to do with anyone, my friendship was just a meeting and it came back
Not them, for example, sometimes they came with the same intention and complained that we don’t see you for 1, 2 months, you don’t contact us at all.
They were constantly in the cafeteria, talking, arguing, I had nothing to do with these arguments at all.
But Sohrab used to come to my studio in the north of the university a year or two before his death
A person sat there and was very quiet, my cat was on the table, I had a cat that was on the table and he was sleeping and I was working.
Believe me, this person could not hear his voice when I went to his house
His mother said Sirak, tell Sohrab to get a wife
And these severe back pains had started, until they diagnosed that he had spinal cord cancer
And it was the end of 1981, before I went to Greece, we were sleeping when I saw the phone ring at 1:00 in the morning.
It was Parvaneh, he called and said Sirak, Sohrab is gone, I didn’t sleep that night until morning
He said that you are the only person to whom I want to give this remaining souvenir of my brother to you
There were 7 people in the free group, there were Arabshahi, Nami and Marco, Memiz, Pilaram, Daryabigi and me sitting here.
Of course, they formed this group and I also participated in this group
And I can boldly say that the group was an artistic process that had not happened in Iran until then.
Because we had a meeting once a week for the concept of this group and every season we had an exhibition that we wanted to be innovative, for example.
And next to this group we had guests who were guests and participated in the exhibition
In addition, with this movement of the group, there were some other leading painters who wanted to keep pace with us outside the group.
So it was an impressive move, I can’t say that our group was more privileged than them
Because they were individuals, but we were in a group, so in the group we formed a so-called concept that they were not aware of.
When they became aware, they tried to keep up with us, which greatly affected the course we were on.
And I’m so glad I was able to be a bit social anyway
Finally, you know that it has reached the year when the revolution movement started
When the revolutionary movement started, almost people and even our group died, each one of us
Suppose that some people went and joined this movement
And even, for example, one day, Marco and Arabshahi who were my home, strongly believed and I don’t know how positive this movement is now, that is that we gradually distanced ourselves.
Part 06
– Opinion about hope for tomorrow?
I always hope, if there is no hope we are not alive, hope for everything really, not just for painting, hope hope hope
I hope my hand will be fine, I don’t know what disappointment means
Because I still look positively at the bad things that happen, the worst thing in my life is my wife’s illness
His illness is really an injury that hits me every moment, but I don’t despair, because if I can, I will help.
– In your opinion, what kind of painting is abstract painting?
Abstract means abstraction, and of course my work is not completely abstract
Rather, you can see or feel many things in it, which means that it is not melancholy
But today’s abstract art has become a fashion trend for some people, so they go after it because they think it’s easy.
But when they get stuck in it, it’s the hardest thing, hard because it’s not something they can play with.
I will explain one thing to you and only one margin, because Picasso was never abstract, but when you see these issues
Let’s say it’s an animal or a quadruped or I don’t know anything that is the main subject of Picasso
The text is abstract, not the subject, the text that worked
The place where he left the subject and those empty parts of that painting, he worked abstractly without realizing it.
He did something that is off topic, because it is off topic, it is abstracted
– How did you get to this level of quoting?
I made a lot of faces, from second to second, I have thousands of faces
And I called these the scratches of life from the faces
The effect that life leaves on the face and this is really a scratch that the example of pain, sadness and happiness is reflected in each person in a way.
And if you look at your palm, you will see these lines
– Explanation about coloring in paintings
I am very fascinated by fossils, objects that are millions of years old
And I want to get old, I really want to get to the point where it feels like it’s even prehistoric.
Suppose an authentic carpet, not a commercial carpet that they make now
A rug that suppose this woman who wove this, and on the occasion of her move, who was looking for, for example, warmer weather, and went through these steps.
You can see, for example, a series of horizontal lines that follow each other
Well, if you ask this lady how she felt, do you think she can answer you?
They did this with love, regardless of a specific color, this color was created
With his movement, these colors came into being, and what art has become, I mean, it has become art that I really kneel down for these works.
That is, it is the most original art that I know, these village rugs
– Relationship with the antiquity of nature
Think about how a sparrow chick, when it is born, pecks and cracks this egg and comes out.
And the same process is happening all over the world, so this chick is not a 1 second, 2 second and 1 minute chick, it is millions of years old.
This habit, this method is related to the same, this chicken
And I think that if I do something now, it’s about the same human being millions of years ago
I can’t say that I do this with thought or knowledge, no really, this is my head and then it is the head of all of us.
We do things that we are not aware of at all, only if a person really wants to say something, he should think not to hurt anyone.
This is where one should use that alert mind
Someone who is an artist, let’s say Tchaikovsky or Beethoven or Bach, they can analyze, investigate and follow these issues.
And then they even look into the psyche of these people, but billions of people have come to this world and left with what pains and what strange worlds that nothing is left of them.
Only this is the difference between an artist and a non-artist because the artist reveals himself
For example, they know that Mozart is dead, but they know what he did
But during Mozart’s period, there were millions of people, no one knows where they went and what happened to them.
But for many years I made a logo to earn my living, I worked in graphics
But when I went home at 6 in the afternoon, I painted with thirst and sometimes until 4 in the morning
I never painted for money in my whole life
Even in Toronto and in those first years, I used to take works and logos, for example, sometimes commercial
I made a logo, I was comfortable for 1 month and that was enough for me
But I never received an order, for example, in portraiture, I can make the best portraits.
I did not get an order to put my painting as a business tool
I always worked in secret, no one understood that I did not do these paintings for money at all
And the money and these actions really saturate the young painters, satiate them greatly
You see, the car I’m driving there is 15 years old, which means it’s for the year 2000, and its doors and body are starting to rust.
My little son said many times that daddy, why don’t you change your car, it is old
I say, well, I have become old myself, really, and this is my friend, I have memories and I live with them
It runs and the engine is great, I don’t mind, why should I change it?
Now the temptation of life, I’m not a fashionable person and I don’t have a night life and I don’t have that much of a social life, I don’t have any money.
When I went to Baluchistan and came back in 1972, of course, I passed Baluchistan, Chabahar, Bandar Jask, Bandar Abbas, and all this part of the east and west, and all this.
In Balochistan, I really saw people who were superior to me both physically and in every way
There were many strange people, for example, he had an old rug that I saw and liked, he told me to take it.
For example, he hadn’t eaten anything, but he wanted to give this as a gift, of course, I didn’t accept it
When I returned home, my wife saw that I did not eat anything at night
He said why? I said, I can’t bear the pain they are causing there, I really lost my appetite.
What music do I like? Suppose there is a piece that has been shaking me for years
Beethoven’s Symphony No. 7 Allegro, you put this in the thing and listen.
I can’t share this with anyone, I must be alone
And turn the volume up, not too high, and every time I listen, I see how long this person has lived.
And where did these fluctuations and vibrations come from and how did it endure?
How did he really endure all this pain that includes happiness in him?
When you see this, Beethoven was infatuated with his environment, he took this and this became universal
After several centuries, it has affected a person
But if he brought instruments and drums and so on and played there, it would not have an effect at that time.
The scope of his vision should be widened, go and split the horizon, go and go far
Art is a vague thing, you know that if someone really has that artistic sense and then has the artistic style
It is the most important part of art because if an artist does not have a style, he does not have his own style
If you assume that he will make the most beautiful painting, in my opinion, his artistic value will be reduced a bit.
There should be a method in everything, even a person should have a method in his behavior
You ask what is art, this is a very complicated question
Because there is art everywhere, there is even art in eating, there is art in walking, there is art in dressing, there is art in everything.
As for me, let’s assume that I am a visual artist, but if you ask me an honest question, I really consider music to be the highest.
Because you can’t touch it, and then these oscillations, these vibrations, all these things, you know, are summed up in music.
And if you look carefully, my recent works are closer to music because it is very personal
I don’t suppose there is a way to, for example, want a similarity between a person and my work
There is a similarity, but this similarity is very vague, and the music has the same, of course, I mean the original music
I like Baroque music a lot, but that doesn’t mean I don’t appreciate great musicians outside that period.
For example, I like Beethoven very much or you know others, it is impossible to summarize which one is more
It depends on what mood I’m in, but I like Bach in any way I’m in.
I teach occasionally, a few weeks a year, I always advise my students that you should
I mean, I am doing something to bring their childhood for today’s life
If one does not have that childlike clarity, one cannot create at all
And really, that childish and childish joy, that so-called searching spirit, is always with me
If I work, like these paper towels, I take them on the plane, I take them on the train.
Let’s say I hide in a secret corner at parties
These are there, but when I want to create a work in my studio, I need to charge my battery.
I sit for 1 hour, sometimes half an hour, sometimes 2 hours, and then I think, I pick my colors, I walk slowly.
Sometimes I can’t, I’ll go out for a while and come back, I’ll charge anyway
And then when I start it goes on like a locomotive
There is no stopping until I get to the point where you think I will be tired in terms of thinking and in terms of hands
And I leave it for another day or another week
It’s the easiest medium for me because I have a lot of designs that are in my notebooks.
But tissues, because I don’t want to have anything in my pocket or with me every time I go to a cafe, let’s say it’s summer.
I don’t even wear a watch sometimes, you know, I want to be comfortable, and the only thing there is paper towels.
I take it without wanting to, when I go to have a coffee, I sit down and then little by little these paper towels accumulate and I work.
And because these are easy and then they are not in the notebook, and then I never think that this will be damaged, so I have to tear it up.
I throw away the paper napkin if it gets damaged, but I have to tear up the notebook, right?
And this tearing, and I don’t know, these things bother me a bit, why, for example, I made this notebook incomplete
This is how it is, there is absolutely no excuse or that it is not a choice, it is chosen, it is different from this.
And if you also ask, for example, from that date until now, these developments or these changes
You have seen a part of this, which means you have seen one thousandth of the changes
If you come to my place of residence, for example, you will see that there is a world of work between these things
which are different, for example, in terms of color, in terms of composition
But in terms of that so-called essence, they are all the same and there is no difference
You can even see these lines in my 60-year-old works
I do not know the future, because I live in the present, you know what the idea of permanence means at all.
I work, I live, I enjoy, you know it’s like walking
When you walk, you don’t know what will happen in the next 100 steps, but you move
Permanence, in my opinion, it is very, very harmful for one to think this way
Because what does it mean at all? Does it mean investment? I am not good at these things
I don’t know at all about a bird that flies, let’s say a butterfly that lives for 1 day, does it think about longevity?
We are part of the same nature, we are part of the same creatures, when one is comfortable and flying, what does the thought of permanence mean?
No one understands anyone else’s work, no one understands Bach’s music, let’s say, they only feel it.
Understanding in art has no meaning at all, what is there to understand? I do not understand my own work
Because when I have this work, I am working, then I am an artist
But when the work is done and I sit here, I am not an artist
In that trance when I go, in that mood when I go, in those emotions that I go, at that time I do artistic work, for example.
And suppose if you think that this is a part of my work or a part of me, no I am a part of that work.
Because I’m sitting right now, while I was there, I’m a part of that board, really, because I might not be able to work tomorrow.
Really, if I think I’ve succeeded, that’s the last point where I’m done
Look, I’m struggling all this time to get to where I want to be and I never get there.