Farshid Mesghali
Audio of the Entire Interview
Interview Transcript
Part 01
My father was an accountant
An accountant at Risbaf factory
and my mother was a housewife
When my mother was about twenty,
she had two kids
There are three kids,
she had the first two
I think I am from a family that…
… had unusual tendencies
For example at that period,
my father used to listen to classical music
Liked music, played violin,
played piano…
even though he was an accountant, he used to paint
he wasn`t conventional
Even though my mother was conventional,
my father wasn`t
and these innovational tendencies
both in lifestyle
and in work tendencies
Thing like choosing a sofa
I usually chose the modern one
For example, even though my father
played Iranian music with violin
and listened to classic music
I was never interested in him playing
but got interested to what
he listened to
or the way I choose clothes…
I mean what I`m thinking about
and I think I`m right about,
because it`s not that simple
Is that I had innovational tendencies
Our house was an old one
Houses in Isfahan were like…
When a house was being built
because they were made by clay
They might`ve used bricks too
but they were mostly built by clay
The process was that
they`d dig up a spot
and they`d made clays there
and built the house with them at the same spot
Therefor a high percentage of Isfahan houses level
were lower than the street level
Because they had to use
those materials to build the house
We had a big yard
with usual tile bricks on the floor
and a central salon
for eating launch
which w`d never use
except for guests
On one side my mother, kids and
I used to live
and on the other side
my father used to live
My childhood was almost passed
in that yard, a big pond and the garden
and my family and cousins…
My grandfather had a house near us
Mr. Hossein Sehat
he was one of
old merchants of Isfahan
He did lots of thing,
had one of the first movie theaters
had a few drug stores
When we were kids we used to
play with the leftovers of tickets of his theater
We`d used them as money
for games
When I started working on
these statues
It was like making toys
or it was like playing with toys
for me
Since childhood I used to make most
of my toys myself
Making castles and using my father’s
tablet cans making cannons
I used to make stuff for
my sister’s doll…
like armor, sword and helmet
and they’d fight eachother
and I made boats…
As there are wooden downpipe in Isfahan
which goes along the rooftop
I’d use the ruined ones to
make ships and sails
and I’d play with them on the basin
Once I made a submarine
I mean I ordered one
and I’d put these dolls in it
and made an engine for it
and this passion for games is still in me
Isfahan wa a kind city which
was full of artworks
At that time,
there were two people
who had shops in Chahar Bagh
Mr. Sumbat and Mr. Hayrapetian
They’re work was to make paintings
and sell them
I mean they had personal galleries
It’s from 1950’s
Which means they’d existed
before us
Hayrapetian would mostly paint
Chahar Baghgh mosque
and he was very good
at painting with watercolor
Sumbat would mostly paint
old roads and bridges
or camels and caravans
or a group sittig at night
and they practically had galleries
and they’d buyers
and I always was interested in how…
They’d paint this perfectly
the patterns on the domes
because it’s really hard
to use watercolor and work in layers
These were my first encounters
with the world of painting
I went to Farhang elementary school
and for the middle school
I went to Neshat
which was half an hour away
and for the next period,
cause there was two cycles
For the second cycle
I went to Saadi High school
Saadi high school still exists
Cause it’s a part of Naqsh-e Jahan Square
I mean the place where we used
to hang around in or study in was Naqsh-e Jahan Square
It was almost the same
way as it is now
The foundation of most of my frienships is
from back then with my classmates
I still see most of them.
For example Reza Noor Bakhtiar was a classmate
Of course I studied math but
he was a science student but we’d hang around
We had a journal in saadi high school that…
was a wall newspaper then.
A wall newspaper was
a showcase on the wal
which was filled with writings,
calligraphi and paintings
which were produced
by cooperation of some people
and I was in their group
for painting
I’d make it pictorial
in a way
I was good at painting
Since childhood I was good at painting
and My father always…
would buy some notebooks
for drawing
and I’d draw with pencil or
Conte pencil on them
In a way my best course
was painting
In the elementary school
I was a good student
but little by little My scores
got lower
and in the high school
I didn’t study at all
But…
Drawing helped me
For example I’d paint for sport journal
and sport teacher would’ve given me an extra score
I studied math
I studied math and got my Diploma
with a Napoleonic score
Which means if the passing score was 13,
I’d gotten 13.2 or 13.3
When I finished high school
I had to go to university
And…
I came to Tehran
and there was numerous antrance class
that I participated in summer
It was different that now, then,every university had its own entrance exam
You could participate in all of them
And I…
participated in a number of exams
Technical university
Architecture university
I even remember that
I participated in a exam for accounting
One of the guys in the group
that we traveled together from Isfahan
Masoud Khalili,
When we registered for architecture university exam
he also registered for sculpturing
Then I thought to register
for painting too
And then I registered
for painting entrance exam too
<i>When you participated in painting entrance exam,</i>
<i>what was your parents reaction?</i>
I didn’t even tell them
I didn’t tell my father about painting…
I told them but
I first said that I’ve registered for architecture exam
and also for painting
And he asked about what
we’d learn there
I said we’d learn
interior design
Cause I couldn’t tell them
that I wanna study painting
It didn’t mean anything
Even after years,
when I was working…
one of the first places that
I worked in was Negin magazine
It wasn’t my first job but
was one of the firsts
After a while that I was working there,
I went to Isfahan and brought the magazine with me
And I told my dad that
I was working in that magazine
He asked what I was doing there?
Writing or printing?
When I said I was designin
the layouts, It was very strange for him
Of course my father…
was very good at painting
I mean he’d drew with pencil
on paper
and he’d draw realistic,
modeling photos
and he was astonishingly good
and he would draw for
interior design
and he would’ve taken offer
to sketch for interior designers
He’d do this as a side job
I think I got this talent from my father
But I told my father that…
We are going to work
as interior designers as painting was meaningless
and my father didn’t care what
we’d do…
and didn’t know about our studies…
or what we do
But he’d help us a lot,
They’d order us to draw maps… Geographic maps
I’d write it down for my father
and…
I’d go to sleep and
he’d draw it for me
Cause he was really good at it,
he’d draw it for me
and I’d always got good scores
for drawing maps
I failed at all the exams
The only exam I passe was
painting entrance exam
I was back in Isfahan
and we’d read the papers everyday
to check the resaults
and the strange thing was that among
the accepted ones was someone named Fereshte Metghali
and I guesses it might be me
and it’s a misspelling
So I went to Tehran,
and It was found that I’ve passed
And I’ve entered a new period
Which year did you enter the university?
I entered university at 1950-1951
Because it contains two years
I strated in 1950 and continued to 1951
well…
About 40 or 50 persons passed
and only 50 got in
and I was one of them.
Part 02
When I entered university
the system was more open
In that period, I think Mr. Foroughi
was the director
Firstly, the ateliers weren’t divided,
there was one long atelier
with painters in it
The university had three major departments
One of the main departments was
architectural department
Architects had three ateliers
which were managed by three architects
But painters had one atelier
which consisted of three rooms
But we were all together,
seniors an juniors
My classmated were…
Ghobad Shiva
Arapik Baghdasarian, Abbas Kiarostami
THose who are still with us,
Hadi Hezavei
We entered the university
the same year
Some of our seniors were famous
Like Aydin Aghdashloo
who was a few years above us
and I’ve had seen his name in
a magazin named Keyha-e Bacheha
and Aydin Aghdashloo had worked
there and I knew his name
I knew a few names,
like Momayez
and it was really exciting for
us to see them
I remember…
Our study system in university was…
a work for every week.
Like painting portrait
A model would sit in front of us
and we’d start painting
and when finished, we’d sign it
to know whos painting it is for scoring
At the first months,
I’d go and search for Aghdashloo’s paintings
I found one paintinf with his signiture and
there was someone standing next to it
who I thought was Aghdashloo
but turned out he was Nami
Of our teachers,
Mr. Heidarian was one of the best that period
but you could say
he had some colleagues
Mr. Hamidi, Mr Javadipour and a lady…
<i>- Behjat Sadr?</i>
No. Behjat Sadr came after.
We’d call her Madam, she was french
And of our theoric courses,
one was french thought by Dr. Doaei
and art history and stuff
thought by Mr. Moghaddam
Heidarian had full mastery
of the method we had to use
We’d use realism and
there was no deviation from it
Of course we had
a series of courses
Portrait, landscape, sketch
and Nude art,
which we’d study with these teachers
We had a course named Decor
In which they’d teach
us about decorative items
One time it would be a poster,
a medal or a theater scene
The teacher for these were none
of the others
other than Mr. Seyhoun
Architects were teacher for
the decor courses
We should have shown our work
to him, and he would give our scores
As long as Mr. Heidarian was present
we couldn’t deviate from the classics
I really tended to work
like impressionists
or work like expressionists
To work like Gauguin
But we weren’t allowed
to work like that
and would work in those limits
Untill Mr. Heidarian got retired
And the atmosphere had changed
Meaning Mr. Hamidi and
Mr Javadipour got more power
Mr/ Hamidi was…
as I remember…
We had time to wotk
from Sunday to…
They’d give us the subject,
like nude art
We’d work till Saturday
and at Saturday noon we should’ve delivered our work
Teacher would’ve correct us
during that period
Put the hand there, or the leg here
or darken the colors
or draw more details here
and They might’ve
helped us a little
Mr. Hamidi would come
every Saturday and…
take the brush and
mark all over and say to darken the colors
and all our work during
the week would be ruined
and It would be up to us
to finish the work from morning to noon at Saturday
All other teachers would make
very conservative corrections
but he would make
very bold corrections which would make a lot of trouble for us
Then Mr. Foroughi left
and at that period
They’d give us all
of the painting tools
Colors, canvas, papers,
coals
They’d give us everything
For example white color,
which we’d use a lot
There were always enough material
at the corner of the atelier
We’d make for ourselves
with oil and murble dust
When Mr. Foroughi left
Everything changed,
They devided the ateliers
Mr. Heidarian had
been also left
One atelier was for Mr. Hamidi
which I was in that atelier
One for Mr. Javadipour
and the other for Mrs. Sadr
At first there were two atelies
and then there were three
These were the three ateliers
that we worked in
I worked in Mr. Hamidi atelier,
I think Kiarostami also worked there
Ghobad Shiva, I think worked
in Mr. Javadipour atelier
Aghdashloo was in Behjat Sadr atelier
Later they were devided again
and younger generations came
For wxample Vaziri came to the university
and he was a weight for himself
He had students
and his entourage
Some were his followers
Hamidi and others weren’t like this
But Vaziri had this character
In this period modern tendencies
started to grow in the university
For exampe ine of the students
in the university was Yektaei
And once he’d paint a cucumber
in red color
and Heidari would fire him from
The university because od that
I had come from Isfahan
to Tehran and being a stranger everywhere
I was painting
behind the tripod
and I heard someone saying
that we are going to Meygoon this weekend
Anyonr coming with us?
I wanted to go so
I said me.
I moved my head like this
and saw that it was Abbas Kiarostami
I said that I’d go,
and he said…
to be ready for a day I don’t remember at 8 o’clock
At that time they’d go
from Fouzieh square
Said to be there at the station,
I went there and we became…
He was with four of his friends,
one whom still is here
and we went to Metgoun.
I didn’t know Abbas
and they didn’t know me either
It was the start of a friendship
between us and we got intimate
I can say that I’ve
had two friends in life
whom I found in the university
One was Abbas and the other
was Morteza Momayez
Who were my best friends
I’m kind of a lonely and isolated person
I don’t socalize a lot
or commute with others
Therefor as in university
there were groups
Hadi, Abbas and others were
in a group
They’d go to north of Iran,
with Sadeghi and others
I wasn’t a part of them
I was closer to a group of
classmates that I came from Isfahan with
cause they were my classmates from Isfahan
I got to know Hadi
at the university
and he was one of the well known
guys in the university
I remember when I was
working in plan and budget organization
There was a project
that I got introduced to by Mrs. Dimbali
They wanted to produce
boxes for Minoo biscuit
Then It fell on me to do it
Then they gave us some
sample box for making the biscuit box
so that we’d photograph them
and use for designing
I brought it to the university.
Everyone had a closet
I put it in my closet
to photograph later
I went to university and opened
my closet and saw that it’s gone
The box was there but nothing inside
I was wondering what
might’ve happened to the biscuits
Then I asked the guys
if they’d know what happened to the biscuits
Hadi was up on a ladder,
don’t know what he was doing
He thickened his voice and
said that I ate them
ans I got so angry…
I kicked the ladder and
Hadi fell down
Lately when I saw him,
We remembered it and he ask…
weren’t you after that
I might die after falling?
Hadi was really interesting,
he was a special person
Morteza and I started our friendship
when designing a book cover
Then I started working with
him at Pathe
Later, Morteza went to France
He came back,
when came back, he said…
He wanted to start working,
so we established a studio
I said lets work together
In the Soraya street
which is named Somayeh now
I’ve had rented a place and
started a boutique
For God’s sake
It was one of the first boutiques in Tehran
There wasn’t any like that
There was a frenchman in Soraya street
<i>- Number one?</i>
No, Khosravani established Number one later
The fisrt one was that frenchman,
he was Khalatbari’s son-in-law
He was a designer, interested in art,
changing a bakery into a boutique
I rented a place… It’s still there,
changed it into a boutique
and number one was…
It’s other door was in Iraj street
It’s name was Iraj street then
We closed the shop but
number one continued to do well
One of the advantages of the university
was that students could work while studying
They didn’t need to spend all
their time in the university
Most of them would work
and earn their living
I think I started looking for a job
at 1964
One of my classmates was
Nasrin Taheri
She was my senior and
she was working at Planning and Budget Organization
and in the public relation department
She told me that the organization
is looking for someone to work there two or three days a week
Asked me I was interested.
And I was very thrilled
So I went to planning and budget organization
and started working in public relation department as…
There was no title as graphist then
They call it Advertisment Painter
Everyone working like that
would be advertisment painter
Graphic phenomenon came later on
I remember at the planning organization…
I don’t know…
Sadegh Hedayat’s nephew…
or one of his close relatives
was working there
and he had written a book
and as I was doing graphic work there
he asked me to design its cover
It was the first book cover that I made
It was a pocket book
Momayez had seen it and
really liked it
So he started talking to me
and becoming my friend
So we got close
At that time Momayez was
working in an agency named Pathe
Agency was owned by Mr. Shahdoosti
and it was an advertisment company
They made ads for Haeilu,
a painting company
They made ads for 7up too
Morteza asked me if I wanted
to work there and I said yes
I went there and
they gave me a spot
Sometimes Mr. Shahdoost would give me a job,
but mostly I did orders
During that period Mahmoud Enayat
got out of Planning organization
and founded Negin magazine
Morteza produced the first
three issues
He designed the cover, layout and illustrations
Then Morteza went to France
to study
And he asked me to replace him
and I was very interested
And I started to work with Mahmoud Enayat
as I knew him from before
and if I recall correctly
I started to work on Negin magazine from issue 4 or 5
I worked with Dr. Enayat for Negin magazin with great pleasure for a few years
And he was really great.
He would give us freedom to try anything new
I would leave a column empty
which was never done before
I might not do this now,
but it was very interesting for me then to leave a column empty
I had good experiences there
I mostly experienced working
with letters then
Experienced illustration
making layout
Designing covers
And it was a both educational
and pleasing period
The period that I worked at Negin
I used to go to university
kinda part time
Until Seyhoun forced
us to work more and I began to work there
And my Diploma project
was when Seyhoun left and Mirfendereski came
and atmosphere was
very suitable for us
cause I had the work
experience outside university
People’d started to know me
Cause I was working at Negin
and…
I had worked on
two books for Azari Yazdi
Working on children books
and I had design some covers for Nil publishing
and for some other publishers too
And I would sign as Farshid
I don’t know why I did that
but that’s what I used to do
I made a name for myself
so they took it really easy for me at diploma project
Part 03
The most influence that
I had in graphic was from Momayez
When I was in high school,
It was when Morteza was doing Ketab-e Hafte
And Ketabe- Hafte was so exciting for me
and working in it was very fascinating to me
It was so exciting that…
when one of my clasmates
who’s wrotten a poem and asked me to illustrate it
I copied Morteza’s work
to illustrae those poems
Morteza was really influencial
in entering the graphic field for me
They wanted to build the Ghandriz Hall
and I was one of it’s founders
But the main founders were
Morteza, Ghandriz himself,… and Jodat
We were a group of about twelve people
who founded Ghandriz Hall
At first it was Iran Hall,
a gallery in front of the university and in a basement
named Iran Hall
and when Ghandriz died
they changed the name to Ghandriz Hall
Later most of out got out
and just Pakbaz and Jodat stayed
<i>Would you please describe your role in </i>
<i>founding Ghandriz Hall and why you left?</i>
Well… It was Morteza who invited me.
He said we wanna establish a galley and you should join us
So I joined them
Our goal was to rent a place
an show artworks
I had some abstract works
which I presented in the gallery
Everyone presented their works,
Ghobad Shiva…
Also Mahallati…
Ghandriz…
Of course we were just small pieces
and the main pieces were Momayez…
or Ghandriz and Jodat
and their kind
They were the main pieces
But there were some people
around them
It was to present as a group,
like the similar movements that work around the world
It was supposed to be
something like that
I don’t remember what happened next
We got out quite normal
and those who were active…
We weren’t active that much
or presenting any new works
Those who were active stayed
I don’t remember any specific memory
from Iran Hall
Except the way I used to work then
but I don’t remember the events
Bu t what I remember is Ghandriz work
was totally different than other then
It was a time that Iranian painters tendency was…
Wether those who studied abroad
or those who were in Iran
They were all willing to
use Iranian elements in their work
When first I came to Tehran,
I went to a biennale which was it’s first round
All the works were one hundred
percent western
Then a new generatio like Zende-Roudi,
Tanavoli, Pilaram, Ghandriz
They were a genration that wanted
to use Iranian elements to recreate their experiences
Ghandriz was one of them,
he was inspired by Lorestan bronze works
and his work was really good,
then he had an accident and passed away
During the university period
while I studied
A job came up but
I don’t remember how it happened
Franklin had started printing
Peyk magazine
After producing study books
specially at elementary period
and starting to remake and illustrate the books
and teaching new painters
and doing book layout and more
Franklin recommends to produce
a magazine for kids
to be educational
for both kids and teachers
That’s how they started
to publish a series of magazins named Peyk
Which is known as Roshd magazine now
and is published by Ministry of Education
I don’t remember how but Arapick Baghdasarian,
Boroujerdi and I got hired at Peyk magazine
Boroujeni!
Arapik, Boroujeni and Me,
they hired us to do the illustrations
Firouz Shirvanlou was the art director in there
He was a young man
who came from England
And I don’t know how
he was introduced to Franklin publication
We have worked together for a few months
then terror of Shah had happened
and the group which was accused
consisted of Nikkhah and…
a group of guys in confederation
who had came from England
I don’t know how they traced them.
They caught Shirvanlou
So they fired all of us
I was working as a freelancer.
Shirvanlou went to prison
and they released him
after two years
After getting out of prison,
he established an advertising company named Negarh
South of the southern alley of Empire cinema,
I don’t know if it’s its named now or not
It was in a basement,
an advertising company and…
He’d get advertising works
and designing film posters
Those who were working
there were me,…
Nikzad Nojoumi,
Ahmad Reza Ahmadi…
and Farid Farjam who was
a friend of Shirvanlou
Then I asked Abbas Kiarostami
if he’d want to join us and he came
and we’d work there together
We’d produce film posters,
brochures
Shirvanlou had a few orders from
the Oil Company and I made some brochures for them
I designed a very big catalogue
like a book for the Oil Company
Then they decided to
establish a publication
Shirvanlou comes forward and…
the first book they wanted to pubish
with the corporation of Shirvanlou was Amoo Nowrouz
I was working at Negareh and
Shorvanlou asked me if I’d design the book of Amoo Nowrouz
and I said I would design it
Of course I had a previous experience
I had illustrated the book,
Khorous Zari Pirhan Pari, by Ahmad Shamlou
for Nil publication before this
It was the first tme we
defined children book format
I mean the format that is known today
as children book format was done then
Firstly it is in square format
I found this format from Japanese books
I saw that they use square cut
so we started using it
And I illustrated this book by
making a collage of fabric…
watercolor, metal pen and ink
It was the point that I got
into a long current that…
open lots of doors for me
I got a second order
which was Jamshid Shah book
It was around the time that
I got out of Negareh, I don’t remember why
And I opened a studio in…
Soraya street…
Studio 42 in Soraya street,
we found it by Morteza
I got an order for Little Black Fish
which I did it in our own studio
Then Kanoon strated to work on it
They got serious and extablished an office
at Bahar street
The 3rd floor,
at the corner of Bahar and Shah Reza street
There is still a building which
at its 3rd or 4th floor they opened an office
And they founded Institute for the Intellectual Development of Children and Young Adults in there
There were Leili Amirarjmand, Firouz Shirvanlou…
We made a couple of commecial animations
at 42 studio for Minoo company
The animation in those films
was done by Asghar Masoumi
and while working on them
I got familiar with animation
And I decided to propose to Kanoon
to make films
I went to Kanoon and asked
Leili Amirarjmand and Firouz Shirvanlou
to turn Jamshid Shah book
into a film for them
and they said okay,
do it
And we didn’t know how to make animation,
The way I learned it…
was a thing of wonder.
We didn’t know anything about making animation
We had a friend who was a commecial film photographer.
He had come here from Germany
He filmed these two commercials
that I mentioned
He had brought a big roll
of commercial film which he’d worked on in Germany
Some of them were animations
And I’d put them on
light box table
And I’d check them with magnifier
one bye one
to see how they’ve done it.
How the hand moves or the leg kicks
It was then that I realized that
they make two frames of one painting
It’s true that the film plays at 24fps
but it’s really just 12 frames
We offered them to make films for them
with such low knowledge and high ambition
They accepted
Meanwhile they succeeded in
acquiring enough budget to…
get a building in Naser street
at Iranshahr which is stil there
exactly in front of a Dizi shop
in Iranshahr street
It’s one of the most famous
Dizi shops in Tehran
In front of it, there was
a five floors building
They rented it and
assigned a floor for cinematic wotks
One floor was for CEO
and library
one floor was for publication
and the other one…
was for reaserch
A lot of politicians, specially left wings politics were
all working as researchers
They’d constantly go to prison
Mrs. Arjmand would speak
with intelligence service and release them
but in six months they’d go
to prison again
From different sides
It might really not be a piece of paper
Then what could it be?
It could be the back of some stairs
– Behinde of some stairs?
– Yes
Behinde of some stairs
It’s really weired,
at first glance it’s like a piece of colored paper
Ahmad Mirbabaei becomes different persons
when meeting in different situations
Like becoming a child for his mother,
a husband for his wife
and becoming a dad for his child
But I got a question?
What’s Ahmad Mirbabaei from…
point of view of an organization,
whatever organization it might be?
Of course first we should know
how that office sees people
What people are to it?
The main pillar of Kanoon
was built in Naser street
They recruited us,
even though we just wanted to work with them
And our company was a disaster
we had many problem with Masoud and Morteza
So I went to Kanoon
and got employed
Kanoon hired three persons
in cinematic department
Arapik Baghdasarian and I were
hired to make animations
And Abbas Kiarostami was hired
to make live action films
We made three films in the first year
I made two
I made “Mr. Monster” and “Misunderstanding”
Arapik made “No Entry”
And Abbas Kiarostami made “The Bread and Alley”
It was his first film
Before that he’d made commercial films
It was his first short cinematic film,
The Bread and Alley was its name
<i>What about Ali Akbar Sadeghi?</i>
They came later
That year they were setting up
a festival
These films won a lot of awards
They gave us some medals and awards
They got more budget and developed
Then more people started to get in
Nafise Riahi came to Kanoon…. later
Akbar Sadeghi…
After a while Zarrinkelk joined Kanoon
And Kanoon cinema department…
developed, not in Naser street, but in Jam street
They bought a building there
and assigned a total floor to cinema department
and assigned a big section of it to animation
The relationship between me and Kanoon
became constant
It wasn’t for creating just
a couple of books and…
I started to make films for them
I’d create books for them as projects
and doing as outsource
In Kanoon I first made
“Mr. Monster”, “Misunderstanding”…
During the years I made “Gray City”
And we cooperated till…
the year 1978
In which I had left Iran
Actually I left Iran in 1979
After a while I came back and went abroad again
I made a couple of films
for Kanoon again
I made “A Drop of Blood, A Drop of Oil”
for Kanoon after revolution
“My Room Lizard”
I made “Me, Hedgehog and My Doll” for Kanoon
I was in England then.
I made it there and sent it for them
And I should say…
I made a series of educational films
named “Why and How”
And then we got diconnected
It was from the first period
Zarin was there when I made another couple of film and then we got disconnected
We wanna move the fire
Have fire in our pocket
Have it in our drawer
Or us just a part of the fire
What solution is there?
One of the solutions is a match
In fact a match is fire
which is moveable and divideable
The secret of its incendiary
is in its parts
Why is match body made of wood?
Because wood would burn very fast and easy
To drink enough water
to overcome thirst
What should be done?
With hand?
No…
A hand might be polluted
Or use a lot of water
and waste it
So what should be used?
With a container that
can hold in water
Its name is “Livan” in persian
Working in Kanoon was
a great period for us
Lots of equipments.
I mean they’d provide as much equipments as they could
To do whatever we wanted
The scenario that we’d present
wasn’t a scenario at all
For example I’d go to the head
of Kanoon and I’d say that…
I want to make a film named “Gray City”
about a boy who do this and that
And they’d say: make it!
The posters that we’d design
wouldn’t be check before being printed
It was the same for catalogues
For example later when
music deparment started working
which was started by
Ahmad Reza Ahmadi
and produced records
and were great records too
We’d design all of their covers.
Everyone would first see them after print
No one would check any etude
Kanoon was an organization
that would provide all the equipments
And…
In return they’d expected you
to do as much as you could
And they work with everyone.
They invited most of the filmmakers of that time
Shahid Sales, Gharib
Kimiaei
Beyzai
Taghvai
They all made some films for Kanoon
the point that looking back now
we can understand
Both book and films were not
one hundred percent made for children
It was a foundation that was
supposed to correct itself by gaining history
But one of the thing that no one talks about now
is that Kanoon built over one hundred and fifty libraries all over Iran
And for each of them, Mrs. Arjmand
took a land, talking with mayors and governors
Taking money from oil company
building them,
They weren’t only libraries
Kanoon Libraries were
cultural centers
They’d teach painting and filmmaking
in them
They’d teach everything there
I mean, there’s a generation now
that is the product of Kanoon in that period… really
Part 04
Shirvanlou ordered designing
of “Little Black Fish” book to me
To do it for Kanoon
There was a technic that I’d wanted
to use for a long time
and that was carving
I thought to use carving
for this one
I knew that linoleum
is good for carving
There was a company named Linoleum
at College crossroad
I went there and bought
some tiles
Then I went and bought
a set of elementary carving tool
It had a couple of carving pen
and some color tubes
I bought those and
started to work on “Little Black Fish” design
The reason I decided to do it was
because fish has simple forms
It was easy to carve
and form its shape
and didn’t need too much
of construction
It was totally defineable
without the need to do something special
I designed the book
and It got published
This coincided with…
As the director of Kanoon
was educated abroad and was connected to them
She sent Kanoon’s artworks
to foreign countries fr the first time
She sent them to
Bologna festival in Italy
Bologna has a famous book festival.
This year was its fiftieth, I think
She sent them there
And one day…
Then one night when
I was reading a newspaper
I read that “Liitle Black Fish”
book had won first prize of Bologna festival
Well, naturally I thought
Samad Behrangi had won
as I didn’t even know
what Bologna festival was
The next day I went to Kanoon
and said looks like Samad had won…
They said, no.
It’s aa festival for book illustration
and has nothing to do with the story
This was a common mistake,
everyone thought that Samad had won it
So the book won the first prize
of Bologna festival
And won a Golden Apple
at Bratislava
And because of the circumstances
It became a famous book
And because of its so called
revolutionary story
As a kid would stand in front
of the ruling current or main stream
and goes contrary to them
It became the popular book
of that era
In fact It’s safe to say that
all of my generation and the next
had seen this book
They either seen it
or read it
Still when I see kids,
they say our mother or father had this book
In that time, It got translated
to Japanese and English
Got translated to German, Arabic and
some languages
Because of so many things
that I had done for kids
I won Hans Christian Andersen Award
In fact, Hans Christian Andersen Award
is the greatest award for children’s literature
which is annual or biennial,
I’m not sure
I don’t remember exactly
but…
But there’s a world children foundation
I think it’s IBBY
(International Board on Books for Young People)
They have founded
this award and…
They award the best children book
writer of the year
Work collection
And the best illustrator
for a collection
They give this award
I don’t remember exactly ehich year
but I think It was the 70’s when they gave me this award
For this book and
other things that I’d done
<i>You mean 1970s?</i>
Yes, 1970s.
The ceremony was at Rio de Janiro
and we went to Rio de Janiro
And It was me who won the prize
for Best Illustration
and Mrs. Maria from Sweden
had won the literature award
Maria Gripe as I recall
Hans Christian Andersen award
doen’s come with any money
It has credibility,
They’d give a medal
The award is a medal
My medal got stolen
Later when my office got robbed
and they took my cameras too
They had thought it was
gold so they’d took it too
Therefor I don’t have the award with me know
But at the same year when
I won Bratislava award
and it came with money
but it was in their own currency
and I remember that they’d
invited me to go there
It was that same year
and when they were about to give me the award
and It was near to nothing
Their currency value was so low,
The award was 10000 in their own currency
but it was very low in Dollar
So I couldn’t do anything with it
I didn’t won that much money…
<i>What about Bologna?</i>
Bologna has credit award too
All of them are about credibility
Of course there are a few cash prizes
For example there’s an award
which is founded in these recent years
I think it’s Strindberg award from Sweden
It has cash prize for children literature
It has an award about 800000 Dollars.
Swedish people are very rich, I think
Cause all of their festivals
has cash prizes
As I remember, I have won awrads of
Bologna, Bratislava, Leipziger
Have won Nova from Japan
My films have won awards from
Venice film festival
Won award from Moscow,
They gave me a camera
I remember when I won Moscow award
They gave me a camera
I won an award in Italy
which I don’t remember the name of
They were all medals, statue and …
I left Iran and lived in England
for a while
Later I went to France
and lived there for years
It was when I started to work on painting
very seriously
Paintings with crayons
On paper
And later Papier-mâché which
I’d paint on
This kind of Papier-mâché
I was in England and had been
living in a city near London
and had a little house in which I’d…
started these works
I made two big sculptures
By big, I mean a size like this high up the floor
Later I remember that
I wanted to go to Paris
My family went to Paris
and I wanted to go there
I don’t know if I told you this,
Then…
And I couldn’t get the sculptues with me
I mean, I didn’t have the strength to carry them
I decided to put them out
To put them in the garbage,
what could I do
I put them two in the garbage
The weather was humid,
and I went to a super market to buy some stuff
But when I got back
the sculptures were gone
They were taken and…
I can conclude that every
artwork has its own customer but the price is very important
I mean wneh it’s free
every artwork can be bought
I went to USA and there we should’ve
work to earn our living
I established a graphic studio there
We went to Los Angeles
We were the third studio there
that was using computers
Macintosh was very new then.
I remember…
when we wanted to establish
the studio and talked about having computers
I went to San Francisco for an exhibition
There were lots of macintosh.
They were small and known as classic Macintosh
It had a monitor this big
and…
had only 512 K of hard drive
It’s hard drive was only 512K
and had 8 K of RAM
This big and black and white
I went there and
got shocked. There was a…
booth there that they’d developed the first
photo editing software
And they were showing its demo
There was a photo of a building
and the guy selected the frame of a window
Then copied it and pasted it over there
and there appeared another window
I couldn’t move my lips.
I was wondering if it’s possible
You should’ve worked for
a month to do that manually
It was a strange magic for me
this computer
I’m a technician and love this kindda stuff
We opened a studio named
Desktop studio in Los Angeles
In Westwood neighberhood
And started to work there,
but as I didn’t think that we could find customers easily
We established a print house there too
and we had a couple of printing machines there
We’d do printing there.
The first imagesetters were from Lino
We bought some of those
And our studio worked for some years
But you know…
We were working…
Then…
But I can do the managing
There are a few things I can’t do
For example I opened a poster shop
in Tehran once
I wanted to sell poster,
many years ago
Southern alley of Atlantic Cinema,
I don’t know what its name is now
I opened a shop and I’d print posters
and sell them
But I couldn’t handle it
Then I opened a boutique but
couldn’t manage it either
It seemed that it was hard there too,
I couldn’t handle it
I was one of the first ones to
create art with computer there
These are some of the samples
we created with the computer
I used photos for these
in different sizes
Of course when I created these
with computer, printers didn’t exist
We would give the file to someone
to create a negative from it
and then we’d print a photo
from the negative
We had a friend in San Francisco and he…
called us and said there’s company
that is starting a new current…
Internet was just out in the world
Internet was new.
For example I remember…
a friend invited us to Caltech
in Los Angeles
and they showed it to us
and said this is Internet
and then one of the first browsers
was Yahoo
Which I thought was made with a muslim
because it was named Yahoo
So it was the begining of the Internet
And there was a company in San Farncisco
named Worlds
Who would create 3d worlds
with the computers
Like the enviroment in kid’s
game world but it was for socializing
We’d create the enviroment,
of course when I went there
and when people wanted to
log in they’d have an avatar
Like there wa a gallery of characters
that people would select from
Then when they’d log into
that 3D space
They’d look like that character/
It could be a penguin or…
It could be Mona Lisa
Then they’d chat with each other
with texts
I mean they’d type whatever
they wanted to say
I went to San Francisco and
I worked for three years to create 3D enviroments
We had big customers,
I created a library for IBM
It was all experimental,
none of the things that we created hasn’t been launched on the net yet
IBM had bought the rights of a lot of
book libraries around the world
For example it had the rights of
all the book libraries of Vatican
It had bought the rights of
many music albums
and wanted to distribute
them digitally
There was a big project that
I worked on
We worked on a project
with Spielberg
There was a project in which they wanted
to make it possible for sick children
with severe diseases who can’t move and are lied down
to be able to other kids
with computers
We worked on a project for them
I created an island for Japanese
which was used for social relations
Then I had a trip to Iran
There was a problem
with renting a house that we had
This very building was embezzled
They were about to get
official document for themselves
I came here and had to
stay for a few month to take care of this matter
And how comfortable it is here.
Working is really hard over there
You know, for the job that I had,
I had to read all the time and learnt new things
I mean there wasn’t a moment
of comfort
I found how easy it is to live here
and there no need to do a lot
I went back to USA and
told my wife, lets go back to Iran
Why are we staying here
So we came back
We came back and…
<i>How long is it that you are back?</i>
I think it was about 98
It was around that time that we came back
Mrs. Javaherian called me and
said they are about to hold an exhibition about Iranian Garden
and asked if I’d participate
and I said yes
And I thought of creating
some pieces
with the same papier-mâché
that I used to work on
I’d been thinking about how I should
arrange them on the floor
Untill one day that I went to
Tehran Museum of Contemporary Art
and saw that they are moving Calder’s work
from the center of the museum
At the center of the ramps which is for walking
there’s a pond of oil
on top of that there’s
an artwork by Calder
I asked what was the reason for moving it
and they said it was to repair it
It’s paints were damaeged
so theye were sending it to Swiss
Someone was disassembling
it with caution like a jewelry
and would wrap them
with fabrics to send them to Swiss and repair them
So I asked them to give me
that spot to put my works in
So I changed my arrangment
and made it hanging
It didn’t came out badly at all
It was the begining of my
papier-mâché sculpturing period
Then I started to change my materials,
Papier-mâché is based on paper so…
doesn’t have the neccessary
strength and it’s fragile
That’s why I changed the materials.
I use the same form but I use other materials
I use metal for the structure then
cover it with plaster and fabrics then paint it with colors
I became my activity for
the last decade
And I have set graphic aside
little by little
<i>You watch some statues once or twice</i>
<i>then they have nothing new</i>
But in a couple of sessions that we come here
I keep looking at them
<i>Looks like they don’t lose their</i>
<i>sense of freshness and fantasy</i>
<i>I don’t if it’s Zapata!</i>
<i>It’s Van Gogh</i>
<i>Excuse me.</i>
<i>Of course it’s Van Gogh</i>
<i>It’s the poor Van Gogh</i>
<i>It’s all disassembled,</i>
<i>his hands and legs</i>
<i>Cause it’s from the time he cut</i>
<i>his own ear</i>
<i>I have seperated his ear and put it over there</i>
<i>his knife is somewere else</i>
<i>His plate is seperated</i>
<i>The sun that made him crazy</i>
<i>is present</i>
<i>It is very interesting for me,</i>
<i>what you are mentioning…</i>
<i>The people who visit me here</i>
<i>always say that these are very happy</i>
<i>It’s not my intention to make them</i>
<i>happy or not happy</i>
<i>But the fact is I really</i>
<i>enjoy making them</i>
<i>Maybe the joy that I feel while making them,</i>
<i>It kindda expresses itself</i>
<i>While creating something,</i>
<i>have you had any doubt about how to finish it?</i>
<i>And be forced to wait?</i>
<i>My works take a lot of time</i>
<i>I mean…</i>
<i>I do my work fast and in one period, but…</i>
<i>I do this and leave it</i>
<i>just to return to it after a while</i>
<i>When people create something</i>
<i>they are somehow under its spell</i>
<i>It’s very close to you</i>
<i>like being stuck to your nose</i>
<i>You are not able to see it</i>
<i>It’s a part of you</i>
<i>and it need distance</i>
<i>I remember a painter saying</i>
<i>that when I’m working…</i>
<i>I look at it through a mirror</i>
<i>so that…</i>
<i>It won’t be the same as my painting</i>
<i>then I can judge it</i>
<i>I let some time pass</i>
<i>For example there’s an artwork</i>
<i>that’s been worked on for three times in a year</i>
<i>I change the colors</i>
<i>There’s been a work that</i>
<i>I’ve had added a form to it</i>
<i>I mean there’s been artworks that</i>
<i>had been finished by one pass</i>
<i>But there had been a lot of works</i>
<i>that I had worked on for many times again</i>
Part 05
Interview with Farshid Mesghali
On His Sculptures
Narrating is interesting for me
I keep this sense of narrating
in sculpturing too
For sure it’s the continuation
of the illustration
Maybe illustration too has been the resault
of my interest in narrating
I only did abstract works
for one period
And it was the very first
period of my work in the university
Of course when I started doing sculpturing
some of my works were abstracts
when I was working in Paris
But anyway, narrating is something very attractive for me
As a resault it exists in my sculptures
I’m dealing with form and narration
Since I’ve started sculpturing
always thought of it as
a suspended canvas
I mean to work on a suspended canvas
I mean, a painting which
its surface is a suspended canvas
It’s my starting point of sculpturing
I don’t know if you have been
to Taq-e Bostan
There are some embossed
pattern there
and there’re a couple of pattern
that are created at Qajar dynasty
One of the Qajar kings had added them
when he’d visited the site
Then they had added
some color on it
In that whole collection the most
interesting part for me is the colored part
A statue is like a ghost…
A statue made of stone and…
or made of bronze is like a ghost
It somehow isn’t physical
Even if it is made realistically,
It’s mood…
It has a feel of reality,
For example…
Michelangelo’s David isn’t alive
It has only a feel of humans
It’s like his soul
and doesn’t have any terrestrial definition
I like those which would be
colored and get a touch of terrestrial feel
Therefor I don’t get the feel
of it without coloring
Sometimes when my friends come here and
look at the white unfinished statues
They tell me to leave them be
and say that they are better in white
I can’t let them be white,
I must color them
So that it’d find the physicality
that I want
And the way I think about statues is
that no matter which kind, they only have one side
I mean, no matter which one you look at,
only one side is its main side
Doesn’t have four main direction
It’s like it has one main side
and the other three is added to it
but when you look at it
you only see it from one specific
Even the modern statues too
They have one side
Therefor, I somehow play with
surfaces that have one side
They have different distances
Have shape
Have relations
Don’t have any back
Being a surface, make me do my
work in only this way
I though of doing it…
I even had offers to make something for outdoor
And a statue for outdoor is better
to be filled inside with something like bronze
But I can’t make a filled statue at all
It’s like those parts are wastes to me
Only the upper side is the main one
In which I try to do my thing
On miniature
I’ve always been sensitive to
miniature from early days of my work
I mean, whenever I’m about to create a piece,
I look at some miniature books
It’s character which is timless and has no location, light or physic,
has always been attractive to me
One of the properties of miniature
is that the only thing important for it is beauty
Even when a scene is about killing
and it’s very violent and bloody
For example Rostam has killed Afrasiab or killed a demon
and there’s even blood in the scene
But there’s not a bit of violence in the painting
and there’s only beauty in it
Search for the beaty
and displaying it
And this aspect of miniature has always
been ineresting for me
Even when I was doing graphic design,
for a long period…
I’d illustrate with its elements
in lithography
I’d used them to design posters, book
and I’d even made film titles with them
I used them in films
I mean, the world of miniature
which was somehow transfered into lithigraphy
has always been attractive to me
and I’ve always used it
And when I started sculpturing,
for example on the Iranian Garden project
I thought of creating Shirin and Farhad
for this project
I didn’t have any source other
than miniature
Therefor my sensitivity towards it
and its subjectivity
brought me to using miniature
Of course it’s not present in all of my works
Miniature isn’t present in all of my works but
I have lots of those works
Some of them has been sold
or are not here
But I’ve tried to make
some miniatue works
For example the collection that
I made at Milad tower
which are unfortunately getting ruined
for bad conditions
They are all inspired with miniature
Layla and Majnun is inspired by miniature
and also Clouds, winds, fogs and suns
I really enjoy it if I succeed
to coneying it
The impact of the dream on creating a work of art
Well, dreaming is the opposite of reality
There is reality…
There is a real event
And there is dream
which is imaginary
I can only use the word
“imaginary” in the field of art and for my works
I mean, imagination is the unseperable
part od creativity
I mean, first of all you…
Well, you imagine that this
piece is finished
You should first imagine
that you can add a stain of blue to it
First you imagine it
then you judge it
Then you either act on it
or not
Imagination is an indispensible
part of it
Imagination is the indispensible part of creativity
and an introduction to action
Meaning creativity practice is done
through imagination
Maybe when done it becomes something
different the imagination or even opposite
But imagination is its
starting point
What problems did you face
during your career?
I’m able to say that
I’ve been lucky
I can’t reaaly say that
I didn’t hae any problem during my career
But they’ve all been trivial
There hasn’t been a big obstacle
They’re not called obstacles
but workflow
For example, we’d send our negatives to laboratory
and they’d get ruined there
Or for example, sound recordist
was supposed to come today but wouldn’t
Or we’d have some technical issues,
the camera would have problems
There were these kinda problems
but saying that I had an obstacle…
I think I got lucky and worked
in a golden fluent age
There was nothing to stop us
Do you believe in the social role of art?
Firstly, an artistist is responsible to himself
And is responsible to their work
It’s the very first responsibility of an artist
Now, They can have social concerns
Which would reflect on their work
or they can have no social concerns
I don’t think of it as
a valuation parameter
Maybe like Renoir, they are more aensitive
towards landscapes or women
Or be like,
who was Frida’s husband? The mexican painter
Rivera!
Rivera was a commited artist
It’s possible to study them
in the field of criticism
But when an artist is working,
there’s only him alone with himself
Which artwork do you like the most?
It’s a very difficult question
There are a lot,
not just one
If I list the artworks that
I want to have
There would be a lot
So many
I definitely want to have
an artwork by Gauguin
Maybe one of Frida’s works
I wanna have Micheangelo’s statues
for example David
Of course it’s not about liking them,
I’m just imagining it
Basically I’m not very interested
in collecting artworks
If you take a look at my studio or
my home, you won’t find an artwork hanging from the wall
Neither mine nor the other’s
Part 06
Interview with Farshid Mesghali
Why was Kanoon more focused on making
artistic animations than commercial ones?
Kanoon’s festival was very
influencial in this matter
A lot of films that participated
in it were from Eastern Europe
There were lots of films from
Soviet Union, Czechoslovakia and Yugoslavia
At that time, Yugoslavia had
a great animation school
They’d call it Zagreb School
Children Film Festival was very
influencial on the way of filmmaking at Kanoon
Most of the films participating in it were…
They were films that
weren’t mainstrem films
When you talk about American
animation…
It’s the kind of animation that
is the product of market demand
It’d not independent of the market
It should have been interesting.
People should’ve liked it
It had to earn money
Whereas the animation made in Eastern Europe
Was not determined
by the market at all
You could call it artistic animation
The systems had founded some studios
and artists would do anything they wanted in them
The kind of animation we call artistic
which are short artistic animations
are the product of Europe
For example there was a studio
in London in which they’d produce commercial films
But the owners would create
personal films at nights
This kind of personal filmmaking
was absorbed by Kanoon and became dominant there
The kind of animation you might call Disney films
just happened at USA
It might’ve happened in the recent
years at Japan too
but It didn’t happen at Europe
It only happened in USA
Because nothing is dependent
of market in there
Even their modern art is defined
by its market
The impact of university on the success of an artist
No art school can create
artists
Art is creativity in fact
When we talk about art
it means creativity
Creativity is impossible to create
and is impossible to transfer
Meaning a student either has it
or not
If They don’t,
It’d impossible to create it
No matter what you do
And when someone has it,
they use it everywhere
School is the place that broadens
students perspective
To see what possiblities
there are
Those possibilities have some effects
on some and havn’t on others
Well, there were fifty of us
the year I entered the university
From all of them only three or four
of them became known artists
Either by keep trying
or founding suitable situations
The rest couldn’t
It might have been because
of the conditions and they’d succeed
School is a place that should
provide a circumstance to flourish
The resault of my work experience and
teaching is that those who has it, has it
And those who hasn’t,
hasn’t
I think a school is,
I mean an art school…
It’s totally different than
medicine school
Medicine knowledge is transferable
You can easily pass the knowledge
but again a good doctor is different than a mediocre doctor
In fact a good doctor has some talents
that makes them a good one
Not possible for everyone to
become a good doctor
A good economist too,
in all the fields it’s like this
But there are some fields that
are scientific and those are tranferable
But creativity is not
The state of the art education system
The kids these days are not ready for the workplace
when they get graduated
When they get out,
they should just start learning
Our education system is not
coheret at all
It’s not a system designed
for a specific output
A specific output should be defined
And the should specify that to reach the defined output
there should be these courses with the difined length and contents
We don’t have any schoold in Iran
that thinks about its outputs
To decide the way the students
would be when they get out
What they know,
what they do
There is a method of learning
which is teacher-student relation
Like old days when a student would be
accepted by a teacher and they’d work with eachother for years
And this long proximity
was very effective on the work of the student
Well, at those days,
masters could have… They had space
Nowadays no master has such a space.
They have divided it
It’s divided.
Just think for example…
If I teach graphic.
It’s an example…
And only I teach…
Meaning a bunch of students
only work with me
For example…
It’s different than when a student
learn each part from different teachers
There was companionship and
a sense of matching between everything
There was balance.
There were some teachers
And there were some students.
There weren’t too much of either
And the job market was suitable
for these much students
Everything was in balance.
Nowadays…
The number of students who go to school
isn’t match with anything else
I read somewhere that
Well, there’s no place for 5000 people
to work as graphic designers
And for this much students you’d
nee about 500 teachers
Where do you find this much teachers
They are the previous students
A lot of kids who were my students…
I teached at masters level in university
A lot of students were to get their
Masters so they’d become teachers
There were lots of talentless students
who are now teachers at universities
The condition is different,
demands are different, everything has changed
The state of art criticism in Iran
For years we didn’t have art criticism
In recent years, with the appearance of
some magazines like “Herfe: Honarmand” or “Tandis”
Some people have started working who
see criticism as a profession
Critics have arise and there are
people who check out artworks and talk about them
It’s a very delicate matter
and it’s hard to do because…
We should see if it effects
the artists themselves or…
How much it rises the level of
art audiences knowledge
I should say that we are
about to have a certain level of art criticism
Those who watch
and those who are eager to check them out
Tehran Auction Performance
I think of Tehran Auction very positivly
Cause it has worked toward
the progress of Iran art economy
The matter of finding financial
value in artworks
has been the lost piece of
our visual arts field
Meaning, we didn’t have it in our culture
to buy artwork as a mean of investment
There were carpets and antiques
but never artworks were of financial value
And it’s a neccessity for the art cycle
in the contemporary world
There was a time that it didn’t exist
but now it’s a neccessity
There are negative side effects too
Meaning many of the artists think more about
the acceptance of the artwork in the market
than the authenticity of the artwork
An advice to the art students
I’ve always had an advice for my students
Because I don’t trust our
educational system at all
See lots of artworks,
create a lot of artworks
See as much artwork as you can
See as much artwork as you can
Work as much as you can
Seeing artworks broadens
the horizon of vision
And working gives you the experience to know
which of the ones that you see would be helpful to you
or is specifically helpful to you
You’d learn while working
Schools won’t teach anyone anything