Mehdi Hosseini Transcript and Audio

Part 05

The most specific characteristic of Iranian miniature painting

is the fact that it has got nothing to do with the tangible physical world that we touch and see.

It is in fact made of the very same thing we find in spirituality and poetry,

not in the material world, you see?

Well, it is much more easier said than done the way how one could actually

turn all this into images and space.

As the result it is something that you should refer to subjectivism

to be able to accomplish, something which refers to the abstract, and not physics.

This is actually one of the things I always bring up,

the fact that on the other hand in the traditional western works of painting like classism

and renaissance all you see is visually-based.

And then the fact that later on the advent of modernism marks the beginning steps

for abstract arts and subjectivism in the western world.

Iranian miniature painting is also very subjective, therefore,

a creative artistic mind can actually turn all these matters into forms

and space and colors and finally in the end into a world which the audience

can be put in front of and be able to establish a connection with,

and finally get the artist’s message via the illustrated spaces.

Speaking of which, it reminds me of Sultan Mohammed’s work on prophet Mohammed’s ascension,

which is a miniature painting work which you could find in the British library.

The question is why is that this book is kept in the British library

when we all know that they are not even Muslims and therefore don’t even believe

or know about the whole thing at all, so why is that they are still persistent on keeping it there.

Reason is that they can relate to it through the space the artist has created

and establish this subjective connection with the work

which is pleasing knowing the fact that you could receive the subjective idea behind

and even start developing it forward in your mind.

Well, a lot of these miniature paintings are about depicting

a scene described in a particular Farsi poem,

for instance, in Gulistan by Sa’di kept at the Chester Beatty library,

I think the example I just gave about establishing a subjective connection

and developing it in mind in my view is the very reason why

they keep such a book in there paying a lot of money for it,

because of that development and its improving effects on their own culture I think.

Now speaking of development, I’d like to refer to some good examples

of this development in Iran in the past like the one during the Teymouri era.

By analyzing to discover the reason behind such levels of improvement

we realize that it can only be brought on by a collection of different factors

working together to cause for it.

Such factors include things like mentality and power, wealth,

and knowledge and the coordination among them.

As examples of such coordination we could for instance name Behza’d in Herat,

or Ja’mi, Khajeh Ahra’, or Amirali Shir Nava’ei.

Such cultures are products of all those factors and people working together.

They never emerge out of each and every one of these people and factors by themselves one by one.

Quite on the contrary, they would get together and talk, debate over it all,

and would finally as the result cause for such cultures to be born in the end.

One of the most particular characteristics of Iranian miniature paintings

is the fact that the artists would never work on or indicate a particular time during day or night.

I mean, on the other hand, if we look at classic European paintings,

they would almost always do it. For example by looking at them one would say yeah,

it is night time all right here, because for example there would be a candle

there or a bonfire or a lantern for that matter to indicate it,

or in other cases the audience would admit it is the day time in it for sure,

since you could see the sun light coming through the window.

Well, such a thing does not usually exist in miniature paintings.

I mean, they do not indicate a particular time.

Or for instance in a classic western painting,

we could tell the angle from which the painter was looking at their subjects from,

but in Iranian miniature painting you can’t find that angle at all.

For instance we see that the artist was looking at the pool from above,

or the terrace from below, which would bring up the topic of simultaneousness.

Our traditional miniature painting at its peak is based

on the relation there is among factors like surfaces and forms and colors.

David Hockney, a reputable English contemporary painter,

who is also very interested in Iranian miniature paintings

and has also studied them, believes that Iranian artists back

then all had a very accurate yet all at the same time very fine observance of nature,

but this delicacy goes through their minds first and turns internal

and subjective, and then after that gets analyzed and finally emerges itself as images we can see,

which are never in the form of identical copies taken from nature either.

Seyed Hosein Nasr has published an article about the world of dreams

and the concept of space in Iranian traditional miniature painting.

When he starts analyzing this art in his article, he says and I quote:

“Iranian traditional miniature painters have never betrayed the true nature of paper sheets

which is having a two dimensional surface with lengths and widths.

This means they never try to bring perspective or as we call it landscape geometry to these surfaces.

Now, this is something we do not see in classic European art culture.

For example, during the Baroque or Rococo eras in Europe,

the artistic movements those artists tried to create all included giving it that illusion

of showing perspective and bring it to the surface of their canvasses.

Iranian traditional miniature painters believe a piece of paper or canvass

has got widths and lengths and therefore a surface as the result of it,

which is as they think something they should admit as a fact and also try

to make the most of it and at the same time to stay away

from causing for the illusion of perspective on those surfaces.

Now, referring back to the topic of modern western art, like Iranian traditional miniature painting,

one can’t possibly figure out the artist’s exact location towards their work,

or for example in cubist style again one can’t find out about the particular angle

from which the light is flashing, or also in abstract painting

we can’t possibly consider a certain focal space for them.

Now, I’m not trying to say Iranian traditional painting is considered modern art.

What I’m trying to say here is that we can claim,

based on all the examples I just brought up,

that a lot of characteristics found in modern art can actually be extracted out

from within our traditional painting culture.

What is more, I am not trying to imply going for making exact copies of western modern art either,

but to try and make this effort to give shape to our own contemporary painting based on time,

mentality, individuality, and the general atmosphere there is and establish this connection

between the two based on the mutual characteristic between them.

The value of Baysonghori Sha’hna’meh and the twenty two illustrations

(compared to Shah Tahma’sbi version which contains two hundred fifty eight illustrations)

in it lies in their really well crafted compositions, drawings, and forms,

which you could see have been considered for everything that contains them,

like the way hands are drawn or the horses or even the pieces of rocks seen there are drawn in general.

Or the whole overall really organized approaches to them,

in which everything has been really well placed,

and last but not least the colors of course which finally sit on them in the end are all very fine

and accurate and well performed indeed

which can teach you a lot of things every time you take a look at them.

You can actually say that the illustrators for this book have really put their fingers

on the most important tools of conveying modern illustrations to the audience,

which is the forms and the spaces.

The number one priority in all these twenty two illustrations is the fact

that they are not narrating a tale, but try

and make this effort to convey their point through the particular kinds of spaces they create.

Now, these spaces might be related to a celebration in a particular case,

like Za’l and Rouda’beh’s wedding, in which you could obviously

see how illuminating the overall atmosphere is in it

and as the result of the compatibility there should be describing in a celebratory event,

there are the musicians there, and also the wedding reception that is going on,

the flowers that are placed in the background

or the certain kind of curtain which is hung,

all in all are there so as to convey that particular attempted atmosphere,

which in this case is a wedding scene.

Or quite contrary to the happy wedding scene there is also darker spaces illustrated in it,

like the scene in which Arja’sp is slain by Esfandia’r.

In this particular one for instance,

you could actually see that the artist has put together surfaces right next to each other

which actually all seem to be crumbling down really,

where the lines are even crooked and all falling down.

On the other hand, the lines drawn in Za’l and Rouda’beh wedding ceremony are all vertical

and very straightly applied,

which is very productive as opposed to the crooked crumbling ones in the other.

The art of painting should be a thoughtful, instinctive and internal one,

which should also be based on mentality, and not something identical to reality at all.

Now, this can all be constantly found in Iranian traditional illustration culture

and more specifically in Iranian miniature paintings all the time.